Silver Medal of Valor

BillB · January 08, 2009, 10:41:22 AM

Each of the military services has their highest award as a neck drape award. Ithought CAP should do the same for the Silver medal of Valor. I found someone else came up with this idea on the internet. (forget where I found it. What do you think?>

Gunner C · January 08, 2009, 01:39:42 PM

Quote from: BillB on January 08, 2009, 10:41:22 AM

Each of the military services has their highest award as a neck drape award. Ithought CAP should do the same for the Silver medal of Valor. I found someone else came up with this idea on the internet. (forget where I found it. What do you think?>

In a word, No. Equating SMOV with the MOH is a real streatch.

Hawk200 · January 08, 2009, 01:45:31 PM

The Medal of Honor is the highest award for the military, there are just different variations of the physical medal for different branches (the differences are slight, but do exist).

Considering what the Medal of Honor is awarded for, I don't think it would be wise for CAP to follow suit just to have a neck decoration.

Stonewall · January 08, 2009, 01:51:01 PM

I don't think it's being compared to the MOH other than the fact that it is our highest award (for valor), just like the MOH is. That's the only similarity.

I personally don't think it would be a bad idea, but limited on when it can be worn; perhaps only in Mess Dress or the cadet's equivalent.

The MOH is worn/displayed in three different ways.

1. Medal worn around the neck.
2. Ribbon on a ribbon rack.
3. Rosary pin on the lapel of civilian attire.

It's hard to see in this scanned photo, but this is one of my former cadets with Col Roger Donlon (Ret). We had a CAP display set up in the Ft. Belvoir PX where we were selling the CAP Christmas ornaments and I noticed the MOH Rosary on his lapel. I asked if he would come speak to our cadets and he did. I then explained that when I was in 8th grade and in CAP myself, I wrote a biography on him for an English assignment. Very cool.

Note: That cadet is now a Captain in the Army and completed SFAS (Officer Honor Grad).

James Shaw · January 08, 2009, 01:55:14 PM

Quote from: Gunner C on January 08, 2009, 01:39:42 PM
In a word, No. Equating SMOV with the MOH is a real streatch.

I agree 100% . Even as a recipient I would never equate the SMV with the MOH. In no way shape form or fashion. The only remote relationship is they are both the top decoration for their respective organizations. I did some looking around and found some other examples on the internet and even those for sale on ebay.

Stonewall · January 08, 2009, 02:06:10 PM

I think it is irrelevant to compare the two awards (MOH vs SMV). An organization can create and display their awards any way they choose, as long as there aren't any legal guidelines forbidding such a display.

Public Safety agencies and foreign military's all have some sort of "highest award" for valor. Who is tell anyone organization how to display their awards? No one. It is CAP right (with the blessing of the AF I suppose) to have an option for SMV recipients to have their medal worn in this fashion. That's like comparing the Master Ground Team Badge to Master Parachutist Badge and where both are worn; above the ribbons. The GTM and jump wings have nothing in common other than they are worn above ribbons and they are a badge.

The SMV is not so prevailant that thousands of recipients are going to be walking around the street showing them off and embarrassing the award. There should be a SMV option to wear it around the neck with guidelines just like every other piece of uniform we have; when and where to wear it.

The MOH is worn as a ribbon as well. Does that mean we shouldn't have a ribbon for the SMV?

Flying Pig · January 08, 2009, 02:21:33 PM

I think there is something to be mentioned about the one photo with the Distinguished Service Cross. If Im not mistaken, that is something the Army does only at the time it is awarded at the ceremony. From that time on, it is not worn around the neck. Because the Navy Cross and Air Force Cross are not worn around the neck at all. When its awarded, its clipped to your pocket flap of your jacket. Same with the Legion of Merit. After it is awarded, its rarely if ever worn around the neck again after that.

James Shaw · January 08, 2009, 02:22:42 PM

My suggestions would be!

Corporate Uniform only (not the AF style jacket)
CAP Mess Dress (either neck drape or mini medal but not both.)
Blazer Combo

Stonewall · January 08, 2009, 02:25:03 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on January 08, 2009, 02:21:33 PM
If Im not mistaken, that is something the Army does only at the time it is awarded at the ceremony. From that time on, it is not worn around the neck.

That is correct. That is the first time I've seen a medal other than the MOH awarded that way, and I have attended a lot of award ceremonies for high level awards.

swamprat86 · January 08, 2009, 02:33:46 PM

Having run a couple of marathons and other similar events where medals are worn around the neck, I wouldn't wear it after the initial award if presented.

They swing and dangle, getting in the way.

It looks good from a presentation standpoint and then they can put it in a shadow box with the certificate and hang it on the wall. Wear the ribbon, metal, or mini as uniform and policy dictates.

I only wear my full size BMOV on special occasions when not in uniform. As with many of us, I did the action because it was what I should have done, not because I thought I would get a medal. So I am not very showy about it.

Stonewall · January 08, 2009, 02:54:14 PM

Quote from: swamprat86 on January 08, 2009, 02:33:46 PMI only wear my full size BMOV on special occasions when not in uniform. As with many of us, I did the action because it was what I should have done, not because I thought I would get a medal. So I am not very showy about it.

That's the thing, even in the "Real Military" MOH recipients generally only wear the medal around their neck at special functions while in formal attire and sometimes in their version of "Class A's". No one is suggesting they wear the SMV/BMV in short-sleeve blues, with BDUs, or their Golf Shirt to meetings or air shows, but I think it would be appropriate, if the recipient chooses to, to wear it at formal events. The ribbon is for "every day" wear, while the medal itself is reserved for special occasions.

No one is debating why someone acted heroically or why they were awarded the medal. I think we over do it when it comes to doing something like the regular military does things. Like it's a faux paux to mimic how something is done because someone else does it.

swamprat86 · January 08, 2009, 03:12:13 PM

Quote from: Stonewall on January 08, 2009, 02:54:14 PM
That's the thing, even in the "Real Military" MOH recipients generally only wear the medal around their neck at special functions while in formal attire and sometimes in their version of "Class A's". No one is suggesting they wear the SMV/BMV in short-sleeve blues, with BDUs, or their Golf Shirt to meetings or air shows, but I think it would be appropriate, if the recipient chooses to, to wear it at formal events. The ribbon is for "every day" wear, while the medal itself is reserved for special occasions.

No one is debating why someone acted heroically or why they were awarded the medal. I think we over do it when it comes to doing something like the regular military does things. Like it's a faux paux to mimic how something is done because someone else does it.

I agree, but I think that some people may be looking at this as an attempt for awardees to show off.

Stonewall · January 08, 2009, 03:34:10 PM

Quote from: swamprat86 on January 08, 2009, 03:12:13 PMI agree, but I think that some people may be looking at this as an attempt for awardees to show off.

Can't make everyone happy. Sometimes you just have to let people think what they think; assume what they assume.

IceNine · January 08, 2009, 03:44:52 PM

I personally like the idea of creating this thing if for no other reason than the award ceremony, they wear it till they get back to their room and then it goes in a shadow box.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing this worn with mess dress for sure, but I don't have any specific reservations about it being worn with service dress either.

I do have one question though.

All of the other "valor" medals pictured above have a blue neck (strap?), is there something to that or is that just because the MOH has one and they followed suit?

Cecil DP · January 08, 2009, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: caphistorian on January 08, 2009, 01:55:14 PM
Quote from: Gunner C on January 08, 2009, 01:39:42 PM
In a word, No. Equating SMOV with the MOH is a real stretch.

I agree 100% . Even as a recipient I would never equate the SMV with the MOH. In no way shape form or fashion. The only remote relationship is they are both the top decoration for their respective organizations. I did some looking around and found some other examples on the internet and even those for sale on ebay.

The criteria for the SMV is more akin to the Airman's or Soldiers Medal. The BMV would probably equate to that of a Commendation Medal for heroism.

Flying Pig · January 08, 2009, 04:02:45 PM

Quote from: IceNine on January 08, 2009, 03:44:52 PM
I personally like the idea of creating this thing if for no other reason than the award ceremony, they wear it till they get back to their room and then it goes in a shadow box.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing this worn with mess dress for sure, but I don't have any specific reservations about it being worn with service dress either.

I do have one question though.

All of the other "valor" medals pictured above have a blue neck (strap?), is there something to that or is that just because the MOH has one and they followed suit?

The neck strap is generally the dominant color of the ribbon.

I could see it used for the awards ceremony, then a nice way to display it in a shadow box after that.

Pylon · January 08, 2009, 04:31:43 PM

Strong non-concur. I think it's just aggrandizing an award for no particular purpose. It's already a prominent and prestigious award. It doesn't need to be a neck order to be prestigious. The award has existed just fine as a medal since its inception.

I also think it would move our awards system further award from mirroring our parent service than bringing us closer in line. As well, I think it would give those outside (and even inside) CAP further fodder for looking at us as poseurs and wannabes. I don't think we need any more flair or "look at me" stuff than we already have; in fact, I think we need a lot less of that type of stuff.

O-Rex · January 08, 2009, 04:44:30 PM

Been a long time since I made an impassioned post, but sometimes a topic strikes a nerve. . . . .

Given the criteria, the SMV is roughly the equivalent of the services life-saving medals under non-combat conditions, and NOT the Medal of Honor.

I can appreciate and respect the actions of those brave CAP members who risked life and limb to save others **BUT** MOH's are awarded for actions performed in a hail of bullets or other thingies specially-made to ruin your day. They are often awarded in conjunction with a Purple Heart, and all too-often pinned to a flag-draped casket, or to the Servicemember who was medically retired for injuries sustained while earning the medal.

I have read all the MOH narratives, and was truly humbled and moved by the actions listed therein. To put these two awards in the same category could be considered an affront to many, and belies the sense of perspective and humility under which we, as CAP Members should serve.

To those in dire need of a reality-check, let me offer an unsolicited "you're welcome."

lordmonar · January 08, 2009, 05:17:15 PM

I think we have opened up another one of those "CAP RANGERS" discussions.

1. The only comparison anyone made about the SMV and the MOH is that they were both the top awards of our respective organisations.......end of comparison. The BSA Eagle Award is like the MOH in the same way.

2. The idea that as the top award someone would want a way to make it stand out at formal/ceremonial functions is exactly in line with what our parent service does.

3. I hate the idea as presented. If we made the neck ribbon the same color as the current ribbon that would be okay...but that red just drives me up the wall.

4. For the record....not all MOHs are awarded for "actions performed in a hail of bullets of thingies specially-made to ruin your day."....yes most of them are....but that just goes back to my point 1....the only comparison is that the SMV and MOH are the top awards....end of comparison. If we used this thinking then we have to evaluate every organisation that uses a neck type decoration against MOH criteria.

Also for the record the MOH is not the only military decoration that has a neck ribbon. And a lot of other organisations use neck hangers for their top valor awards.....FDNY, NYPD, LAPD, LVFD are just a few right off the top of my head who's top awards are neck decorations. Anyone want to call them possers?

5. I see no need to make a change....but would not oppose except I don't like the color of the neck ribbon.

Flying Pig · January 08, 2009, 05:31:54 PM

Ive worked for 3 law enforcement agencies, and every one of them presents all their medals with a neck strap. But after the ceremony, the award is never worn again around the neck. You usually get a small metal pin to wear on your pocket flap.

I dont think anyone would give it a second thought if we awarded the medal in that manner.