Boonie Cap

[Eagle400]

If we do get one, I pray it is bright orange!  Maybe that will curb the "I want to look like GI JOE mentality".

No it won't... it will just make all the wannabe, arrogant "CAP Rangers" in Pennsylvania use the bright orange boonie cap as an excuse for wearing all the other orange stuff that isin't authorized, including their "ranger tabs" that aren't even like the ones the military wears. 

Does anyone know why Hawk Mountain is an NCSA, anyway?  

Think about it: the kind of training a Hawk Mountain "ranger" (aka GROUND TEAM MEMBER) receives in the wooded mountains of Pennsylvania will be very different from what a GTM receives in the deserts of Nevada or the bayous of Louisiana. 

I am a firm believer that if you want to get GT training that is helpful in all environments, go to NESA; don't waste your time with Hawk Mountain, unless you're from around that area or an area that has similar topography.   

[isuhawkeye]

what does hawk and NESA have to do with the boonie?

also

the coast guard auxiliary has worn a Tilley hat for some time

[cnitas]

I predict the Boonie will take the place in most SQD's as the preferred form of headgear within 1 year of it's approval....I seriously doubt Commanders will restrict it just to outdoor activities in the sun.

I can tell you for sure that many unit CC's will be restricting it to ES field operations or prohibiting it altogether.
In fact I'll be lobbying my Wing CC to do just that on a wing level.

It has absolute no place in quarters, formation, or any place else but summer field work, (any more than a beret belongs in the field).

Sounds like a great plan.  But how long until everyone is required to bring a Boonie to ENC?  How long before it becomes the standard headgear for flight opps in sunny locals.

It seems we all got along with it just fine for so long, it is just one more item to make people feel better about themselves.

If we do get one, I pray it is bright orange!  Maybe that will curb the "I want to look like GI JOE mentality".

Actually, 'we' have not gotten along without it just fine.  Many of us have been calling for the hat to be authorized due to our prolonged exposure to the sun on many of our operations.

Another person mentioned having melanoma.  In the military, they would send them packing on a medical discharge-no problem.

We cannot do that, so we need to do everything we can to avoid these types of injuries, and to avoid increasing cadet's risk of developing longer term problems.

[chiles]

Exactly. A doctor once told me that a tan was a precancerous skin condition. I think it's important to note the difference between getting along fine and getting along. There are a lot of things that could change in the name of safety and health or improved planning and integration (don't get me started on CAP using SLG 101, or even the new CPG 101... or PM if you want to, it's kind of funny), but we don't. I never accept "we've always done it that way" as a reason to continue. Boonie hats are a great way to prevent exposure while maintaining a uniform look.

[mikeylikey]

^ I was under the impression that the radiation travels through certain clothing materials anyway.  You don't get burned, but you get just about the same amount of rays as you would if you were not wearing anything.  (Mikey, is by no means in the health industry, I am only saying what I think I remember reading or hearing). 

I have also got to point out that the KEVLAR soldiers wear on their heads does nothing to protect the face, or neck from sun exposure.  In fact, it is standing policy in theatre to be wearing a helmet when patrolling.  The only time I see Boonie hats being worn are by the AF types stationed on the airbases.  One way around this whole situation is to wear sunscreen.  That needs to be beat into peoples minds more! 

As far as sunburn being a pre-cancerous condition, I am totally not sure about that.  There are pre-cancerous conditions that arise as a direct result of sunburn, but the burn itself is not related to cancer.  Also, skin cancer can develop in people who never set one foot into the daylight. 

WE are trying to lump Bonnie hats with preventing cancer, when we should be relating the hats to the real reason they are wanted.  I don't know that reason, but am sure there are many.

[SarDragon]

^ I was under the impression that the radiation travels through certain clothing materials anyway.  You don't get burned, but you get just about the same amount of rays as you would if you were not wearing anything.  (Mikey, is by no means in the health industry, I am only saying what I think I remember reading or hearing). 

Infrared will go through some clothing. Ultraviolet generally does not. The latter is responsible for sunburn.

[davidsinn]

Back to flight line for a minute. One more reason I will not allow a boonie cap on my line is because it retains heat in your body. When the air temp 6 feet above the ground is 120 degrees because of the black top you do not want to retain body heat.

[DNall]

So anyway... no hats (boonies incl) should be allowed on flight line, that's crazy, results in kid chasing hat into big spiny things & damaging one or the other. Clearly flight lines are hot, sun burn & dehydration are major issues. The answer is people need a cool water/rest point off the line & replacements need to be rotated in on a regular basis. That includes FLS too. It's a bigger safety concern for me to have folks out there all day than it is to have no one out there. In other words, this is not an excuse for boonie hats.

[davedove]

I have also got to point out that the KEVLAR soldiers wear on their heads does nothing to protect the face, or neck from sun exposure.  In fact, it is standing policy in theatre to be wearing a helmet when patrolling. 

That really has nothing to do with our discussion.  In the case of the helmets in a combat zone, it's a case of immediate concerns outweighing later concerns.  It doesn't matter if you develop skin cancer years down the road when the bullet could kill you today.

It's been a long time since CAP had to deal with combat operations.

[chiles]

I have also got to point out that the KEVLAR soldiers wear on their heads does nothing to protect the face, or neck from sun exposure.  In fact, it is standing policy in theatre to be wearing a helmet when patrolling. 

That really has nothing to do with our discussion.  In the case of the helmets in a combat zone, it's a case of immediate concerns outweighing later concerns.  It doesn't matter if you develop skin cancer years down the road when the bullet could kill you today.

It's been a long time since CAP had to deal with combat operations.

Exactly my point. Also, to Mikey, repetitive sun exposure for extended amounts of time, either in a salon or just walking around outdoors, does cause skin cancers. I can back it up with a wealth of studies, but I wouldn't make my worst enemy read through that! I agree that we should be pushing for those people out in the field to wear both sunscreen, a hat, and, if at all possible, bug repellent. I've not worked flight lines since I was a cadet but to me the wearing of a hat could cause a safety issue much more costly than that of a sunburn, much in the same way Dave explained the risk of getting shot in the head outweighs that of getting a sunburn.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I wanted the Boonie hat approved specifically for the purpose of adding another level of safety to our operations. Recommending such changes is just part of the job of the CAP HSOs. Just because we can't practice routine care, we can certainly practice routine prevention. So, I say right on to Boonie hats! I think they have a tendency to look dumb but their effectiveness is well documented.

[DogCollar]

As a person in their 40's who has developed skin cancer twice...a hat with a brim and sun-block SPF 45 work wonderfully in tandem, but less effectively a part.  I personally think the boonie looks kind of goofy.  Might I suggest a smart and spiffy Pith Helmet that you saw and loved in Gunga Din and every Tarzan movie you've ever seen!!!!

[DrDave]

As a physician in real life and CAP, let me make a few comments about boonie caps and skin cancer.

For those watching the recent National Board meeting proceedings in Washington, DC, you'll know the following that was discussed and approved concerning the boonie caps:

1. Approved for safety reasons, i.e. better protection to the back of the neck and tops of the ears.

2. Blue boonie cap approved immediately for wear with the Blue BDU uniform (BBDU).

3.  Woodland camo boonie cap has been approved by CAP for wear with the woodland camo BDU, but awaits Air Force approval

4. The wear of boonie caps is authorized only by the activity director and is not for every day wear.

No other colors are authorized.

The approval of boonie caps during CAP activities has been pursued by the CAP National Health Services Program for many years.  Bravo to them for finally getting it approved.

Sun exposure is directly related to one's risk for developing skin cancer.  Yes, "sunburns" are all precancerous conditions.  In fact, the number of bad sunburns you've had in your lifetime is a direct and important risk factor for developing skin cancer.

Skin cancer kills.  Period.  Yet, it's completely preventable.

Yes, skin cancer does sometimes develop in those who never get out in the sun.  But, here's a news flash -- everyone dies.  Period.  Even those people who run 5 miles a day -- they die too, just hopefully much later than us couch potatoes.  So if you reduce your risk for developing skin cancer, you can increase your longevity.

Boonie caps will do that in reducing the risk of developing skin cancer in areas not well protected by a BDU cap or baseball cap -- i.e. the back and sides of the neck, the tops of the ears, etc.

Dr. Dave

[tribalelder]

 "... Might I suggest a smart and spiffy Pith Helmet that you saw and loved in Gunga Din and every Tarzan movie you've ever seen!!!! ..."

WIWAC, the uniform manual included pith helmet as authorized headgear w/505's and I think the Bush Jacket  I don't recall if it was an option w/1505's.  I didn't know anybody who had one ...

First, thanks to our health professional-brother-volunteers for getting this on the agenda.  CC's in the field will now have to decide (balance) the safety and uniformity issues, hopefully wisely.

Currently, I have my (limited and tweed colored) (Tweed is not a 101 card or DMV color option) hair buzzed to 1/8 inch weekly.   At a combable length,  my hair's R and SPF ratings were both insufficient to be functional, so it's stocking cap in winter (for the R's) and sunscreen for the SPF's.  It is SO much easier to apply sunscreen now.

[Camas]

WIWAC, the uniform manual included pith helmet as authorized headgear w/505's and I think the Bush Jacket  I don't recall if it was an option w/1505's.  I didn't know anybody who had one ...

The bush jacket was never available with 1505's.  Very few of them were seen after about 1962.  Not sure about pith helmets though there were a few worn by AF members when I served in Panama in 1964.  Mods - hope it isn't off topic; just wanted to answer the concern about 1505's.

[mikeylikey]

Sun exposure is directly related to one's risk for developing skin cancer.  Yes, "sunburns" are all precancerous conditions.  In fact, the number of bad sunburns you've had in your lifetime is a direct and important risk factor for developing skin cancer.

Sorry Doctor, the consensus is that Sunburns do increase the chances of developing Cancer, but it is not a pre-cancerous condition.  The National Institute of Health along with Cancer.gov makes note of that as well.  They say your chances of developing melanomas are greater if you develop sunburn, but it is by no means a predictor of what develops.    I have no problem preventing Cancer, but I think the Boonie is just going to turn into what the Blue Beret did. (Mikey once again states he is not a Doctor, but is very involved with Cancer, and has done extensive research on the subject)

[Eclipse]

1. Approved for safety reasons, i.e. better protection to the back of the neck and tops of the ears.

...then the ability to operate "sleeves up" or "shirt off" should also be prohibited.

[chiles]

I'd like to point out that what I said was a doctor once told me a tan was a precancerous condition. What he meant was that the continuous exposure to the UV rays required to cause a tan can increase the likelihood of a skin cancer developing. Further, it causes damage:

"A suntan is not an indicator of good health. Some physicians consider the skin's tanning a response to injury because it appears after the sun's UV rays have killed some cells and damaged others." (CDC Source here: http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/skin/chooseyourcover/qanda.htm#4). I am a medical professional and my grandfather, a former Army (and later Air Force) pilot, had multiple legions directly attributable to exposure to UV rays while in service. Granted, the atmosphere was much more thin at the altitudes he was flying, but the principle is the same.

[chiles]

1. Approved for safety reasons, i.e. better protection to the back of the neck and tops of the ears.

...then the ability to operate "sleeves up" or "shirt off" should also be prohibited.

Totally agree. Summer weight BDU's are designed for hot temperatures. If it's so hot that working in the field will require reduction of clothing, then exposure should be limited per the Army's recommendations found here: http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/doem/pgm34/HIPP/WorkRestTable.pdf

[A.Member]

The serious argument for the boonie cap is one of safety - to protect against sunburn?  Seriously?!  Give me a break...  

Anyone ever hear of sunscreen?   Limit exposure time.

The boonie cap idea is a silly one.  As mentioned it's simply the result of "want to look cool" mentality.  Nontheless, it is approved and wear should be extremely limited.  

If there is so much concern over the well-being of our members that we're worrying about the long term potential threat of skin cancer, then perhaps we should take a significantly more urgent approach to the physical condition of our members, particularly our senior members.   Based on my first hand observations, many are unfit are almost certainly high risk for heart attack, stroke, etc. as a result of their poor physical condition.   The potential impact of such a condition is much more immediate.  Yet, no PT program exists or is encouraged for senior members and, what's more, we continue to serve donuts (aka fat pills) at virtually every SAR/SAREX.  To me this certainly is a greater concern than sunburn - which is completely preventable even without wearing a boonie cap.   Just sayin...

[lordmonar]

1. Approved for safety reasons, i.e. better protection to the back of the neck and tops of the ears.

...then the ability to operate "sleeves up" or "shirt off" should also be prohibited.

And it is....if you are the safety guy for that operation....make the call.  Just like hats on the flight line.  If the danger of FOD or running after a stray hat is greater than the danger from the sun....make the call.

Allowing boonie hats when the conditions call for them is a good thing.  Just all allowing for suitable rain gear, feild gear and cold weather gear.

I think this is just a dust up over something silly.   If your only argument about the hat is because it looks "unprofessional"...I think we need to go over your ORM training.

Granted I too think that boonies for everday wear is a no go....but here in Nevada we could really use the boonie hat...I got a bad sunburn last time I was out in the field and I DID use SPF 50 sunblock several times before, during and after I went out.