Do Senior Members without Grade wear epaulets on the corporate aviator shirt?

[Aegidius]

I'm not sure it explicitly says yes or no and have come across a 'new member kit' that states 'no'. What do you all think? I've worn them before without being corrected but then, that doesn't make sure it's right. 

[RogueLeader]

No, you do not.  This is the one place that the AF Blues and Corporate uniforms diverge of accouterments.

[lordmonar]

Well.....the manual contradicts itself.....Fig A5-1 shows AMPUOG (adult member pursuing officer grade) shoulder marks.

But

1.4.1. Adult individuals without grade pursuing officer promotion will wear the USAF-style or Corporate-style uniform as for Officers without any rank insignia.

I think I'm going to ask the NUC to remove the AMPUOG from the figure.

[SkywalkerRA]

If I'm reading this section of 39-1 correctly, I believe that a SMWOG wearing the Corporate aviator uniform shirt is required to wear the blank grey epaulet sleeves now.

Page 12 Chapter 1.4.1.2

Sorry, I can't copy and paste this on my tablet.

[lordmonar]

I see that too....but it directly contradicts Para 1.4.1.

Okay...I'm on it.

Question to Knowledge base sent.

[Storm Chaser]

Well.....the manual contradicts itself.....Fig A5-1 shows AMPUOG (adult member pursuing officer grade) shoulder marks.

But

1.4.1. Adult individuals without grade pursuing officer promotion will wear the USAF-style or Corporate-style uniform as for Officers without any rank insignia.

I think I'm going to ask the NUC to remove the AMPUOG from the figure.

The shoulder marks/epaulets are NOT a grade insignia. They're meant to distinguish a member pursuing officer grade, from a member pursuing NCO grade. There's no contradiction.

[lordmonar]

Well.....the manual contradicts itself.....Fig A5-1 shows AMPUOG (adult member pursuing officer grade) shoulder marks.

But

1.4.1. Adult individuals without grade pursuing officer promotion will wear the USAF-style or Corporate-style uniform as for Officers without any rank insignia.

I think I'm going to ask the NUC to remove the AMPUOG from the figure.

The shoulder marks/epaulets are NOT a grade insignia. They're meant to distinguish a member pursuing officer grade, from a member pursuing NCO grade. There's no contradiction.

I'm a college graduate and I'm confused.   It needs to be cleared up.

[lordmonar]

Okay.....disregard.

In the cool morning light....I guess my ability to read for comprehension kicked in.


"SMWOG" more properly known as Adult members Pursuing Officer Grade or Adult Members Pursuing NCO Grade, will wear the uniform of the "corps" that they are going for.

So....someone who is going to become an officer wears the gray shoulder marks without any grade insignia.   The BLANK Shoulder Marks.

[RogueLeader]

Well, I'll be Kesseled,  I was wrong, and the "Blank" slides are worn on the Aviators.

I would have sworn that I read it the other way when it came out.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well, I'll be Kesseled,  I was wrong, and the "Blank" slides are worn on the Aviators.

I would have sworn that I read it the other way when it came out.

It's alright. I read your posts, and was going to check, because I've been telling officer track SMs in G/Ws to wear the blanks! Thanks SMSgt for the clear up!

[supertigerCH]

This is one of those things that has never made sense to me.

The only purpose of epaulets, is to hold the rank (grade) of the person wearing them... and SMWOG by definition do not have any rank pins / grade to put on the epaulets.


It is quite ridiculous that members are forced to wear these (and to spend more money on yet another item from Vanguard)... when there is absolutely no purpose -- until they reach second lieutenant.

Perhaps I can stand to be corrected, but as far as I know... no branch of the U.S. military does this (and although CAP is not the military...  even our "patron service" the Air Force... whom our uniforms are supposed to emulate... does not do anything like this "empty epaulet " on their uniforms -- even with officer candidates). 

Just another CAP quirk that I will probably never make sense of.  Then again, maybe some would see this as my own personal shortcoming.  Everyone has their own thoughts I guess.  To me this additional piece of the uniform (to pay money on) willl never make sense.

[Holding Pattern]

This is one of those things that has never made sense to me.

The only purpose of epaulets, is to hold the rank (grade) of the person wearing them... and SMWOG by definition do not have any rank pins / grade to put on the epaulets.


It is quite ridiculous that members are forced to wear these (and to spend more money on yet another item from Vanguard)... when there is absolutely no purpose -- until they reach second lieutenant.

TIG to 2LT is 6 months. It isn't necessary for any member to buy that uniform in that timeframe.

[Eclipse]

TIG to 2LT is 6 months. It isn't necessary for any member to buy that uniform in that timeframe.

"That" uniform is required of all members.

With that said, I think I'll just order a few pairs for squadron supply, and members can borrow / return upon promotion.

[kwe1009]

TIG to 2LT is 6 months. It isn't necessary for any member to buy that uniform in that timeframe.

"That" uniform is required of all members.

With that said, I think I'll just order a few pairs for squadron supply, and members can borrow / return upon promotion.

Where is it written that aviator shirt or blues is required?  No specific uniform is required for any Senior Member.  They can choose to purchase and wear just the polo shirt.

The polo shirt is what I tell all new Senior Members to purchase first.  It is the cheapest uniform since it seems like most people have a pair of gray pants already.  I want them to be sure CAP is for them before going out and spending a lot of money on the other uniform combinations.  When they get close to six months I ask them to either purchase the aviator shirt or a set of blues or a utility uniform.  I encourage all of my Senior Members to have a utility and dress uniform but in the beginning I want them to get involved and then see what path they want to take. 

[Storm Chaser]

1.2. Wear of the CAP Uniform.

       1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.

                 1.2.1.1. Minimum USAF-style Uniform: The minimum basic USAF-style uniform is the Blue Service Uniform (Class B) with short sleeve shirt (male) or blouse (female) as appropriate. Cadets authorized to wear the USAF-style uniform are required to maintain this uniform.

                 1.2.1.2. Minimum Corporate-style Uniform: The minimum basic CAP Corporate-style uniform is the Aviator Shirt Uniform with short sleeve shirt or blouse as appropriate. Cadets aged 18 and older who meet weight standards for wear of the USAF-style uniform must maintain the USAF-style Class B uniform as noted in the previous paragraph.  (emphasis mine)

[SarDragon]

Drat, too slow. What he said ^.

[stillamarine]

TIG to 2LT is 6 months. It isn't necessary for any member to buy that uniform in that timeframe.

"That" uniform is required of all members.

With that said, I think I'll just order a few pairs for squadron supply, and members can borrow / return upon promotion.

Where is it written that aviator shirt or blues is required?  No specific uniform is required for any Senior Member.  They can choose to purchase and wear just the polo shirt.

The polo shirt is what I tell all new Senior Members to purchase first.  It is the cheapest uniform since it seems like most people have a pair of gray pants already.  I want them to be sure CAP is for them before going out and spending a lot of money on the other uniform combinations.  When they get close to six months I ask them to either purchase the aviator shirt or a set of blues or a utility uniform.  I encourage all of my Senior Members to have a utility and dress uniform but in the beginning I want them to get involved and then see what path they want to take.

CAPR 39-1

1.2. Wear of the CAP Uniform.
1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms
described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may
require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a
specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied
without expense to the cadet.
1.2.1.1. Minimum USAF-style Uniform: The minimum basic USAF-style uniform is the
Blue Service Uniform (Class B) with short sleeve shirt (male) or blouse (female) as appropriate. Cadets
authorized to wear the USAF-style uniform are required to maintain this uniform.
1.2.1.2. Minimum Corporate-style Uniform: The minimum basic CAP Corporate-style
uniform is the Aviator Shirt Uniform with short sleeve shirt or blouse as appropriate. Cadets aged 18 and
older who meet weight standards for wear of the USAF-style uniform must maintain the USAF-style
Class B uniform as noted in the previous paragraph.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Telling adult members to get the polo only points to ignorance of regulations.

Here is what CAPM 39-1 says about uniforms. I  have highlighted relevant parts:

1.2.1. Individual members will obtain and maintain for wear either of the minimum basic uniforms described here. These combinations meet the requirements of most CAP events. A commander may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary (such as requiring a specific uniform for participation in a National Cadet Special Activity) or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet.   

1.2.1.1. Minimum USAF-style Uniform: The minimum basic USAF-style uniform is the Blue Service Uniform (Class B) with short sleeve shirt (male) or blouse (female) as appropriate. Cadets authorized to wear the USAF-style uniform are required to maintain this uniform.   

1.2.1.2. Minimum Corporate-style Uniform: The minimum basic CAP Corporate-style uniform is the Aviator Shirt Uniform with short sleeve shirt or blouse as appropriate. Cadets aged 18 and older who meet weight standards for wear of the USAF-style uniform must maintain the USAF-style Class B uniform as noted in the previous paragraph.

Note no mention of the polo being required as the minimum. The polo is mentioned later as an additional work uniform.





Drat! Too slow...

[etodd]

CAPM 39-1 26 JUNE 2014 73 5.2.1.11. Accessories. Reference paragraph 6.3.2.
5.2.2. CAP Corporate Working Uniform. (Figure 5.3)
5.2.2.1. Shirt. Two types of knit polo shirts are authorized for men and women. The knit polo shirt must be worn tucked in by men unless heat conditions on the flight line or while participating in actual air operations require additional air circulation.

^^^^ Specifically says polo can be worn during flight ops.  Its all I own and all I wear as a CAP pilot.

Haven't we hashed this out in another thread a few days ago? LOL

If you don't like me wearing a polo to fly .... get NHQ to delete 5.2.2.1 above.

[Eclipse]

OK, be nice, fun is fun but no piling on!



In all seriousness, though, something like this, which has been on the first page of 39-1 for 20 years and still escapes
experienced members clearly points to disconnects in understanding the program's actual expectations.