Air Crew Wings

[NIN]

Ah, completely different guy than I was thinking of.

LSThiker, thanks for digging out that doc. That's my scan and PDF, I'm not sure that I know where it is at right now in my archives.

Having grown up in Michigan Wing, the parachute group is legendary in the whispered oral history of the wing. My unit as a cadet was not far from the airfield mentioned, and I commanded a squadron not far from there as well. ( of course you would never know that today, as that airfield has been swallowed up by a subdivision)

One of the gentleman mentioned in that article, his son was one of my instructors when I learned how to skydive.

[HGjunkie]

There are still a few states that allow parachuting at 16. Florida comes to mind, as does Ohio and Oklahoma.

You have to be 18 to skydive in florida.

[flyboy53]

On this same subject, anybody know of a CAP policy allowing cadets to wear the aviation cadet wing above their ribbons if they're in flight training?

I can't find it in the regs, but the cadet in question said he was presented the officer wing and prop device to show he was in flight training.

[Storm Chaser]

The only aeronautical badges authorized are those prescribed in CAPR 35-6. Cadets can earn the CAP Cadet Pre-Solo and Solo Pilot Ratings if they meet the requirements in CAPR 60-1.

[Storm Chaser]

I couldn't find the requirements for pre-solo in CAPR 60-1, so I looked in the CAP Knowledgebase and found this:

The criteria for pre-solo wings referenced in CAPR 35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges 17 Aug 2002 and shown in CAPM 39-1 Figure 6-16 Aviation Badges are no longer included in CAPR 60-1 CAP Flight Management 12 December 2012 or under pilot ratings in CAP eServices .  The requirements were:

CAP Cadet Pre-solo Rating: The following basic requirements must be met to be qualified as a CAP cadet pre-solo pilot.  This qualification may only be earned at an organized wing or higher-level flight encampment/academy.

(1) Be an active CAP member at least 16 years of age (for balloon or glider be age 14 or older).
(2) Have received the required instruction from a CAP FAA certificated flight instructor/glider (CFI/CFIG), at a wing level or higher flight encampment/academy and have a written record documenting instruction of all items of FAR 61.87 in the appropriate aircraft.
(3) Complete a pre-solo qualification flight.  Pre-solo qualification flight: A flight performed at a CAP wing level or higher flight encampment/academy during which the CAP student pilot demonstrates, to an onboard CAP certificated flight instructor (CFI), that the student pilot has the ability to fly the aircraft without assistance from the on board CAP CFI.  This flight does not require an FAA endorsement and does not fulfill FAA requirements for solo flight; however the prerequisite for a pre-solo qualification is completion of all requirements in the appropriate portion of FAR 61.87.

[NIN]

You have to be 18 to skydive in florida.

Hmmm. Used to be 16.  Some USAC (then the ACA) cadets went to a DZ in FL and took a SL course 8 or 9 years ago...

[arajca]

On this same subject, anybody know of a CAP policy allowing cadets to wear the aviation cadet wing above their ribbons if they're in flight training?

I can't find it in the regs, but the cadet in question said he was presented the officer wing and prop device to show he was in flight training.

In a word...no.

[mdickinson]

The only aeronautical badges authorized are those prescribed in CAPR 35-6.
Cadets can earn the CAP Cadet Pre-Solo and Solo Pilot Ratings if they meet the requirements in CAPR 60-1.

Actually, cadets can earn any of the following wings by meeting the requirements given in CAPR 35-6 (some of which reference CAPR 60-1).

• CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Wings*
• 
  CAP Solo Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Senior Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Glider Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Balloon Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Observer Wings

Of course, some of those will require a certain age:

• To earn solo wings, you must solo an aircraft. The FAA requires you must be 14 (glider or balloon) or 16 (airplane) to do this.
  
• To earn glider pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with glider rating. The FAA requires you to be 16 to do this.
  
• To earn balloon pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with a balloon rating. The FAA requires you to be 16 to do this.
  
• To earn pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with airplane rating. The FAA requires you to be 17 to do this. (Likewise, senior pilot requires 3 years active piloting since your first CAPF 5 checkride, so it would not be possible to earn that before age 20.)
  
• To earn observer wings, you must hold the Mission Observer rating. CAP requires you to be 18 to do this.

Note, CAPR 35-6 also mentions three other wings which I removed from the list above because they can't be earned by cadets:

• CAP Command Pilot Wings - These require 5 years active piloting since the first CAPF5 checkride. Therefore age 22 would be the minimum possible (most likely several years later, due to the requirement to log 2000 hours pilot time). So that can't be earned by a cadet.
• 
  CAP Senior Observer Wings - requires 3 years experience after earning the Mission Observer rating, so could not be earned before age 21.
• 
  CAP Master Observer Wings - requires 5 years experience after earning the Mission Observer rating, so could not be earned before age 23.

* - 35-6 refers to 60-1 for requirements, but they are no longer in 60-1. Refer to CAP Knowledgebase (quoted by StormChaser 3 messages before this one) for requirements.

[Storm Chaser]

^ I didn't say that cadets can ONLY earn the solo and pre-solo wings, only that they can earn them. I was trying to clarify that there is no "aviation cadet wings", but that the only cadet-specific wings are the solo and pre-solo wings.

[GroundHawg]

The only aeronautical badges authorized are those prescribed in CAPR 35-6.
Cadets can earn the CAP Cadet Pre-Solo and Solo Pilot Ratings if they meet the requirements in CAPR 60-1.

Actually, cadets can earn any of the following wings by meeting the requirements given in CAPR 35-6 (some of which reference CAPR 60-1).

• CAP Cadet Pre-Solo Wings*
• 
  CAP Solo Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Senior Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Glider Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Balloon Pilot Wings
• 
  CAP Observer Wings

Of course, some of those will require a certain age:

• To earn solo wings, you must solo an aircraft. The FAA requires you must be 14 (glider or balloon) or 16 (airplane) to do this.
  
• To earn glider pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with glider rating. The FAA requires you to be 16 to do this.
  
• To earn balloon pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with a balloon rating. The FAA requires you to be 16 to do this.
  
• To earn pilot wings, you must hold a private pilot certificate or above with airplane rating. The FAA requires you to be 17 to do this. (Likewise, senior pilot requires 3 years active piloting since your first CAPF 5 checkride, so it would not be possible to earn that before age 20.)
  
• To earn observer wings, you must hold the Mission Observer rating. CAP requires you to be 18 to do this.

Note, CAPR 35-6 also mentions three other wings which I removed from the list above because they can't be earned by cadets:

• CAP Command Pilot Wings - These require 5 years active piloting since the first CAPF5 checkride. Therefore age 22 would be the minimum possible (most likely several years later, due to the requirement to log 2000 hours pilot time). So that can't be earned by a cadet.
• 
  CAP Senior Observer Wings - requires 3 years experience after earning the Mission Observer rating, so could not be earned before age 21.
• 
  CAP Master Observer Wings - requires 5 years experience after earning the Mission Observer rating, so could not be earned before age 23.

* - 35-6 refers to 60-1 for requirements, but they are no longer in 60-1. Refer to CAP Knowledgebase (quoted by StormChaser 3 messages before this one) for requirements.

Can someone explain the logic behind the requirement for Glider and Balloon Wings to have a FAA pilots license with endorsements? IMHO a FAA Glider or FAA Balloon Pilots license should be good enough. Why the powered flight requirement?

[mdickinson]

Can someone explain the logic behind the requirement for Glider and Balloon Wings to have a FAA pilots license with endorsements? IMHO a FAA Glider or FAA Balloon Pilots license should be good enough. Why the powered flight requirement?

CAP glider wings and balloon wings do not require an airplane rating. You just misunderstood the terminology.
What you are calling an "endorsement" is actually a rating.
What you are calling a "FAA Glider license" is actually an FAA private pilot certificate with glider rating.
What you are calling a "FAA Balloon Pilots license" is actually an FAA private pilot certificate with balloon rating.

Each FAA pilot certificate contains the category, class, and instrument ratings that have been earned by the pilot.

The certificate held by a typical CAP airplane pilot might read
PRIVATE PILOT - AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
or
PRIVATE PILOT - AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND, INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE

but for someone who has only flown gliders or balloons, it might say
PRIVATE PILOT - GLIDER
or
PRIVATE PILOT - LIGHTER THAN AIR FREE BALLOON.

A pilot who has flown with an air taxi (or who just enjoys earning additional ratings) and learned to fly gliders might have a certificate that reads
COMMERCIAL PILOT - AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE LAND, INSTRUMENT-AIRPLANE, GLIDER


The above are ratings, not "endorsements." An endorsement is a log book signature from a flight instructor that makes the pilot qualified to fly some particular variant, such as (a) high performance aircraft, (b) complex aircraft (i.e. retractable gear), or (c) pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. These do not appear on the pilot certificate, only in the log book.

The pilot certificate can also contain "type ratings," which are qualifications to fly specific makes and models of large and jet aircraft. See http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/libview_normal.aspx?id=6577

...thread hijack complete.

[GroundHawg]

This makes much more sense. I'm not super familiar with the aviation side of CAP, and learn something new all the time! Thanks for the info!

[NIN]

BTW, to tie up the sub-discussion about skydiving/jump wings, the USPA Board of Directors just voted to raise the minimum age for jumping at any USPA affiliated DZ (most DZs in the US) to 18.

CAP cadets *could* still skydive, but they'd all have to be old enough to execute a contract / waiver on their own.

Back to air crew wings.

[Private Investigator]

What did the wings look like? What did the school/course consist of? What happened that caused it to close?

Attached is a monograph on the CAP parachutist.

Thanks for sharing. I must have overlooked it.   :clap:

[Panache]

Well, at least one good thing about the Aviator Shirt combination.  Wear of CAP aviation badges are optional, so you don't have to wear that terribad atrocious (AC) badge...thing... if you don't want to.

[Garibaldi]

I found what I think will be a good candidate for a hat to wear with the G/W.

http://lileks.com/institute/comicsins/comics/wallgren/11.html

If you have a minute or 3,000, peruse the rest of the site. It's a guaranteed  good time.

[Panache]

I found what I think will be a good candidate for a hat to wear with the G/W.

And if you angle the propeller right, it'll help you keep cool on those hot days!