Air Crew Wings

[AlphaSigOU]

Vice that....take the pilot wings.....award that at MS and then use the sheild version of the CAP wings (posted early in this thread) and award that to pilots (it is closer to USAF pilot wings anyway).

Like the USAF Fighter Mafia would ever allow that.

Or more correctly... Ma Blue would probably resist any attempt from their 'red-headed step-children' to adopt wings that would resemble the Universal Management Badge!

[Storm Chaser]

Vice that....take the pilot wings.....award that at MS and then use the sheild version of the CAP wings (posted early in this thread) and award that to pilots (it is closer to USAF pilot wings anyway).

Actually, in the U.S. Air Force it is the Combat System Officers/Navigators/Observers who have the USAF shield on their wings, not the pilots. The shield used in the pilot wings is a different shield, resembling that used in the Coat of Arms of the United States.

USAF CSO/Navigator/Observer Badge:


USAF Pilot Badge:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

I would support using the Pilot wing with enamelled RWB National shield (USAF does not use that, as best I know) with "CAP" superimposed over it.

For the other Aircrew wings use the enamelled tri-prop device.

Or for Pilot use the enamelled tri-prop and for Aircrew use maybe a two-bladed prop?

[Papabird]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

I would support using the Pilot wing with enamelled RWB National shield (USAF does not use that, as best I know) with "CAP" superimposed over it.

For the other Aircrew wings use the enamelled tri-prop device.

Or for Pilot use the enamelled tri-prop and for Aircrew use maybe a two-bladed prop?

Navs are still around on a lot of Air frames.  (B-52's & B-1b I know for sure).  A recent USAF video showed Major Gregory Watson (A CAP Spaatz cadet) and current B-52 Nav, as one of the faces of the Force.   So, yeah, they are still around. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Correction so noted, Sir.

[AlphaSigOU]

Air Force astronauts not rated as pilots (mission/payload specialists) are awarded AF 'observer' wings (same as 'naviguesser' wings) upon completion of astronaut candidate (ascan) training at NASA. They don't earn the 'shooting star' on the shield until they have flown their first mission into space (50 miles + altitude).

[Storm Chaser]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

Navigator can refer to a crew position or an aeronautical rating. Those who graduated Undergraduate Navigator Training prior to 2009 retained their Navigator rating unless they transitioned to the Combat System Officer (CSO) track. I, for example, am a rated Navigator not a CSO. WSO and EWOs, who attended training prior to 2009, received the Navigator rating as well, even though their specialty and crew position are WSO and EWO, respectively.

On the other hand, CSOs assigned to an aircraft with a Navigator crew position (C-130s, for example), would retain their CSO rating, but would be Navigators on that aircraft. I am both. I have crew mates that are CSO rated, but Navigators on our C-130 aircraft.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

Navigator can refer to a crew position or an aeronautical rating. Those who graduated Undergraduate Navigator Training prior to 2009 retained their Navigator rating unless they transitioned to the Combat System Officer (CSO) track. I, for example, am a rated Navigator not a CSO. WSO and EWOs, who attended training prior to 2009, received the Navigator rating as well, even though their specialty and crew position are WSO and EWO, respectively.

On the other hand, CSOs assigned to an aircraft with a Navigator crew position (C-130s, for example), would retain their CSO rating, but would be Navigators on that aircraft. I am both. I have crew mates that are CSO rated, but Navigators on our C-130 aircraft.

Wow.  That's a lot of information.

EWO's - like on EF-111's (an aircraft I don't see why was taken out of use, but they didn't ask me)?

[Storm Chaser]

Wow.  That's a lot of information.

EWO's - like on EF-111's (an aircraft I don't see why was taken out of use, but they didn't ask me)?

Electronic Warfare Officers (EWOs) are assigned to aircraft such as the MC-130H, EC-130H and the now retired EF-111.

Weapon Systems Officers (WSOs) are assigned to aircraft such as the F-15E.

[flyboy53]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

Navigator can refer to a crew position or an aeronautical rating. Those who graduated Undergraduate Navigator Training prior to 2009 retained their Navigator rating unless they transitioned to the Combat System Officer (CSO) track. I, for example, am a rated Navigator not a CSO. WSO and EWOs, who attended training prior to 2009, received the Navigator rating as well, even though their specialty and crew position are WSO and EWO, respectively.

On the other hand, CSOs assigned to an aircraft with a Navigator crew position (C-130s, for example), would retain their CSO rating, but would be Navigators on that aircraft. I am both. I have crew mates that are CSO rated, but Navigators on our C-130 aircraft.

Wow.  That's a lot of information.

EWO's - like on EF-111's (an aircraft I don't see why was taken out of use, but they didn't ask me)?

Last time I was with the 366th Fighter Wing, EF-111 right-seaters were WSOs, not EWOs. When did that change?

Air Force astronauts not rated as pilots (mission/payload specialists) are awarded AF 'observer' wings (same as 'naviguesser' wings) upon completion of astronaut candidate (ascan) training at NASA. They don't earn the 'shooting star' on the shield until they have flown their first mission into space (50 miles + altitude).

It's more appropriate to say "awarded the observer rating." I always thought the observer rating was really cool because it was like an anything rating. There are some who had to be dual rated as pilots and bombardiers to be observers. You know the one set of wings we haven't talked about yet? Technical Observers...why not do that instead of aircrew. That would mean using the existing observer wings and put a big "T" somewhere in the design. Wouldn't that be more appropriate for scanners, aerial photographers and the various systems operators?

Check it out:

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/technicalobserver/images/presleyaaftechobserverfrtsm.jpg

[Storm Chaser]

Last time I was with the 366th Fighter Wing, EF-111 right-seaters were WSOs, not EWOs. When did that change?

According to GlobalSecurity.org and General Dynamics Fact Sheet, the EF-111A aircraft had a pilot and an EWO. Other variants of the F-111 aircraft had a pilot and a WSO.

[PHall]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

I would support using the Pilot wing with enamelled RWB National shield (USAF does not use that, as best I know) with "CAP" superimposed over it.

For the other Aircrew wings use the enamelled tri-prop device.

Or for Pilot use the enamelled tri-prop and for Aircrew use maybe a two-bladed prop?

Navs still fly on RC-135's, AC/EC/MC-130's, B-52H, E-4B, VC-25A, F-15E and B-1B.
EWOs still fly on B-52H, RC-135's and EC/MC-130's.

[Mitchell 1969]

The Brevet Wing, which is what your one winged wings are called, are pretty much a British Empire thing.
Brevet wings haven't been used in the US since before WWII.

Nah. "Brevet" is the Commonwealth term for all aviation wings, whether full or half.

[Robert Hartigan]

Why not follow the lead of the solo wings? The pre solo badge does not have a prop. Aircrew wings could be like observer wings minus the prop.

[Brit_in_CAP]

The Brevet Wing, which is what your one winged wings are called, are pretty much a British Empire thing.
Brevet wings haven't been used in the US since before WWII.

Nah. "Brevet" is the Commonwealth term for all aviation wings, whether full or half.

Entirely correct; in my former Service (Royal Air Force) and those of the British Commonwealth the 'aircrew badge' is referred to as the aircrew brevet and the term applies to all aircrew badges (pilot, navigator, loadmaster etc) and is applied to both commissioned and non-commissioned ranks.  In the British military the term is also used by the Army Air Corps and the Fleet Air Arm.  As far as I can recall the term doesn't apply to the Operational Parachutist badge, the Sport Parachutist badge or similar.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The RAF and RAAF have consolidated a lot of their "brevets."



I think that this is now what is awarded to most non-pilot aircrew in the RAF.

Similarly for the RAAF:



I think the RNZAF still uses a plethora of half-wings, and the RCAF has full "two-wing" badges for almost all aircrew positions, except these:



However, they have switched half-wings to ground trades, worn over the right pocket!  Go figure.


Military Police

As for CAP, I do not think the idea of adopting the "solo" badge (or something like the AFROTC) one as a model is a bad idea.



Maybe replace the design with our enamelled red/white/blue prop/triangle?



That would make it unmistakably "us."

[Brit_in_CAP]

Sadly all too true as the number of non-pilot aircrew categories has reduced.  The only exceptions to the picture shown by CyBorg is the Fighter Controller and Airborne Technician which both have the initial letters instead of RAF.

The Parachute Jumping Instructors also wear their 'wings' in similar style as they are officially considered to be Honorary Aircrew; all other 'para' badges go on the sleeve.

[Panache]

Two other suggestions.  (again, please excuse my horrible photoshop skills)

Both are fairly simple, but distinctive enough from both CAP Mission Pilot wings as well as USAF wings.  They keep the CAP logo intact.

The first one is the wings, but with the center portion simply being the triangle with the tri-prop in the center, with no circle around it.  The second adds a superimposed "C" on top of it (giving the triangle-and-C a "AC" effect).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Not the worst idea presented here.

[KarlIceman]

The Navigator style is still used?  For what - F-15E Wizzos?  I had thought all the transport planes now had computerised navigation.

I would support using the Pilot wing with enamelled RWB National shield (USAF does not use that, as best I know) with "CAP" superimposed over it.

For the other Aircrew wings use the enamelled tri-prop device.

Or for Pilot use the enamelled tri-prop and for Aircrew use maybe a two-bladed prop?

what would you think about the shield with the tri-prop such as is on the Cadet Programs badge for the pilots and the disk/circle such as on the current Observer wings only without the superimposed "O" for the AC Wings?