CAP Medals

[Shuman 14]

I'm not buying that. Not a'tall.

The last "Cold War" draftee to go to Germany without at least one US award was probably in 1960, maybe 1961, when the NDSM started to be awarded again following a break since the mid 1950's. But the ASR didn't come along until 1981. Are you really trying to convince anyone that they came up with a ribbon then to solve a problem that hadn't been around for 20 years?

And...point of order. ASR isn't a "decoration."

The idea was put forward then, just because it didn't get implemented until 1981 is just bureaucracy at its finest... kinda like getting a new 39.1 published. 

And for Army regulations regarding the wear of Foreign decorations and badges, the ASR is considered a decoration. 

[Shuman 14]

I was Army Guard 1982-1985 and that is not now I remember it. BTW, the last drafted soldier reported for duty in June 1973. The Army Achievement Medal was a good ideal, badly deployed. A friend of mine, his son got an AAM for doing well in Boot Camp.

No different than a Air Force Basic Military Training Honor Graduate Ribbon, the Army just didn't see the need for a separate award to be created.

[lordmonar]

Personally, I think the ASR and the AFBMTS ribbons were both started because of the end of the Vietnam War.

In those days....everyone go the NDSM....when the war ended now you had nothing there until you got your Good Conduct Medal.

So...I think the just made these ribbons to have something to go on that side of the uniform.

YMMV.

[Mitchell 1969]

I'm not buying that. Not a'tall.

The last "Cold War" draftee to go to Germany without at least one US award was probably in 1960, maybe 1961, when the NDSM started to be awarded again following a break since the mid 1950's. But the ASR didn't come along until 1981. Are you really trying to convince anyone that they came up with a ribbon then to solve a problem that hadn't been around for 20 years?

And...point of order. ASR isn't a "decoration."

The idea was put forward then, just because it didn't get implemented until 1981 is just bureaucracy at its finest... kinda like getting a new 39.1 published. 

And for Army regulations regarding the wear of Foreign decorations and badges, the ASR is considered a decoration.

No. It's not a decoration. It's a service ribbon. Although, when it comes to serving the purpose of allowing wear of foreign decorations, 670-1 seems to consider it as the equivilant of a service MEDAL.

[Panache]

Personally, I think the ASR and the AFBMTS ribbons were both started because of the end of the Vietnam War.

In those days....everyone go the NDSM....when the war ended now you had nothing there until you got your Good Conduct Medal.

Not just "those days".  I got a NDSM when I joined in the early 90's, and if memory serves me correct, new recruits are still getting them due to the War On Terror™.

[Private Investigator]

Personally, I think the ASR and the AFBMTS ribbons were both started because of the end of the Vietnam War.

In those days....everyone go the NDSM....when the war ended now you had nothing there until you got your Good Conduct Medal.

So...I think the just made these ribbons to have something to go on that side of the uniform.

YMMV.

From Wiki: The Sea Service Deployment Ribbon (SSDR) is a service award of the United States Navy and United States Marine Corps which was established in May 1979 and retroactively authorized to 14 August 1974, coinciding with a temporary suspension in authority for award of the National Defense Service Medal between that date and 2 August 1990.

Even in the Marines, we like a little bling bling too 

[Private Investigator]

Personally, I think the ASR and the AFBMTS ribbons were both started because of the end of the Vietnam War.

In those days....everyone go the NDSM....when the war ended now you had nothing there until you got your Good Conduct Medal.

Not just "those days".  I got a NDSM when I joined in the early 90's, and if memory serves me correct, new recruits are still getting them due to the War On Terror™.

The NDSM was authorized for 8/2/90 - 11/30/95 for the First Gulf War. Then again from 9/11/01 to present for the War on Terrorism.

When I was in the Marines we called it the "fire watch ribbon". Because that is what we did in Boot Camp and their is a back story to that   

[flyboy53]

The one that boggles my mind there is the "Army Service Ribbon." Isn't wearing the uniform enough indication that I'm in the Army?

Yes... and no.

The ASR itself has little meaning, but purpose behind it is sound. Back before the ASR was created, during the Cold War, draftee soldiers were getting sent to Germany and were being awarded German awards like the GAFET and the Schutzenschnur but could not wear them because regulations stated Foreign decorations could only be worn in conjunction with at least one (1) US decoration.

Since this was also before the Army Achievement Medal was created, most soldiers didn't see their first decoration until their Good Conduct medal was awarded at 3 years, which most draftees never saw, getting out at 2 years.

So the Army created the ASR, the most minor of decorations, so that those German (and other Foreign awards) could actually be worn when they were presented.

I'm not buying that. Not a'tall.

The last "Cold War" draftee to go to Germany without at least one US award was probably in 1960, maybe 1961, when the NDSM started to be awarded again following a break since the mid 1950's. But the ASR didn't come along until 1981. Are you really trying to convince anyone that they came up with a ribbon then to solve a problem that hadn't been around for 20 years?

And...point of order. ASR isn't a "decoration."

I'm not so sure about that. Depending on where you were on Germany, you might have still qualified for the Army of Occupation Medal. I'm not sure when the cut off was.

As I remember that era, the real reason for the ASR and the AF Training Ribbon was to recognize those who entered the military during what was then still called the All Volunteer Forces Training Concept. I always thought that it was more of a training device than anything, but I do know that the ASR was a little harder to get than the training ribbon. After all, for the AF Training Ribbon, all you had to do was complete "accession training" which could mean anything from two weeks (nurses, doctors, chaplains and lawyer orientation) to several months (OTS) depending on the program you were in. For the ASR, you had to graduate from AIT before you could wear it.

In my time, we called the AF Training Ribbon, the Battle of Lackland Award -- blue for the service you joined, yellow from the streak up your back from the training instructor, and red for the blood shed on the obstacle course. I never thought that the BMTS Honor Grad Ribbon was necessary. One person got it in my flight in 1977, but then I only ever saw it again 10 times. The reality of these ribbons, however, is that they recognize service that often times goes unrecognized. For example, the AF Overseas Service ribbons recognize completion of sometimes very remote tours in places like Alaska or Greenland where the weather is just has hostile as any possible enemy threat.

AF People seemed to warm up to the overseas service ribbons first because they recognized tangible completion of an overseas tour. The cutoff eligibility date for both ribbons is still September 1980.

A lot of people wouldn't wear the training ribbon at first. Then as it grew in popularity, they expanded the eligibility date to be retroactive to earlier periods of service as long as you still had some sort of military status. Now it's just as common as the NDSM.

As for me, the very first ribbon I ever earned was an AF Outstanding Unit Award in 1979, I think. I was always very proud of that because the first two I earned came from service with the 21st COMPW/TFW when that wing was part of the Alaskan Air Command. We were given individually mounted ribbons and little lapel pins. I still have both. The last one (my sixth) came in July 1991 and was presented by the Under Secretary of the Air Force during a formal ceremony when my wing was demobalized from Desert Storm wartime operations.

Personally, I think the ASR and the AFBMTS ribbons were both started because of the end of the Vietnam War.

In those days....everyone go the NDSM....when the war ended now you had nothing there until you got your Good Conduct Medal.

Not just "those days".  I got a NDSM when I joined in the early 90's, and if memory serves me correct, new recruits are still getting them due to the War On Terror™.

The NDSM was authorized for 8/2/90 - 11/30/95 for the First Gulf War. Then again from 9/11/01 to present for the War on Terrorism.

When I was in the Marines we called it the "fire watch ribbon". Because that is what we did in Boot Camp and their is a back story to that   

Actually, the NDSM was created by Gen. Dwight Eisenhower as a "blanket campaign" medal to avoid a proliferation of military awards. To date, it has been awarded four times during four different periods of war or national emergency and joins the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (created in the 1960s by President Kennedy) as the two oldest continually awarded service medals presented to American service members. The biggest difference between the NDSM and something like the ASR and the AF Training Ribbon is that you only have to serve one day on active duty to earn it. For the two ribbons, you have t complete the training.

[AlphaSigOU]

Cadets at all of the service academies continued to receive the NDSM in between the periods where it was not awarded to the rest of the military (1975-1990 and 1995-2001).

[MSG Mac]

Cadets at all of the service academies continued to receive the NDSM in between the periods where it was not awarded to the rest of the military (1975-1990 and 1995-2001).

They're SPECIAL!! Ironically unless they're prior service, their service dates don't start until they graduate.

[Mustang]

Getting a medal for simply joining is a bit ridiculous, IMHO.  Can you say "participation trophy"?

[SarDragon]

I'm not so sure about that. Depending on where you were on Germany, you might have still qualified for the Army of Occupation Medal. I'm not sure when the cut off was.

Army of Occupation Medal, Germany Clasp (not all inclusive)
Germany (May 9, 1945 to May 5, 1955)
West Berlin (May 9, 1945 to October 2, 1990)

[PHall]

Getting a medal for simply joining is a bit ridiculous, IMHO.  Can you say "participation trophy"?

Oh I don't know, a little something for giving up many of your rights as a American Citizen deserves a little something, don't ya think?

[68w20]

Getting a medal for simply joining is a bit ridiculous, IMHO.  Can you say "participation trophy"?

Oh I don't know, a little something for giving up many of your rights as a American Citizen deserves a little something, don't ya think?

Especially those of us that did so during a time of war...

[flyboy53]

Cadets at all of the service academies continued to receive the NDSM in between the periods where it was not awarded to the rest of the military (1975-1990 and 1995-2001).

Really? Not according to federal law. Check this out:

Title 32 - National Defense

Volume: 3

Date: 2008-07-01

Original Date: 2008-07-01

Title: Section 578.23 - National Defense Service Medal.

Context: Title 32 - National Defense. Subtitle A - Department of Defense (Continued). CHAPTER V - DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY. SUBCHAPTER F - PERSONNEL. PART 578 - DECORATIONS, MEDALS, RIBBONS, AND SIMILAR DEVICES. - General.

§ 578.23 National Defense Service Medal.
(a) Criteria. The National Defense Service Medal (NDSM) was established by Executive Order 10448, April 22, 1953, as amended by Executive Order 11265, January 11, 1966 and Executive Order 12776, October 18, 1991. It is awarded for honorable active service for any period between June 27, 1950 and July 27, 1954, both dates inclusive; between January 1, 1961 and August 14, 1974, both dates inclusive; between August 2, 1990 and November 30, 1995, both dates inclusive; and from September 11, 2001 to a date to be determined.

(1) For the purpose of this award, the following persons will not be considered as performing active service:

(i) Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve forces personnel on short tours of duty to fulfill training obligations under an inactive duty training program.

(ii) Any service member on temporary duty or temporary active duty to serve on boards, courts, commissions, and like organizations.

(iii) Any service member on active duty for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination.

(2) In addition to the conditions listed above, Executive Order 12776 extended award of the NDSM to all members of the Army National Guard and United States Army Reserve who were part of the selected Reserve in good standing during the period August 2, 1990 to November 30, 1995. During this period, soldiers in the following categories will not be considered eligible:

(i) Any soldier of the Individual Ready Reserve, Inactive National Guard or the standby or retired Reserve whose active duty service was for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination.

(ii) Any soldier of the Individual Ready Reserve, Inactive National Guard or the standby or retired reserve whose active duty service was for training only, or to serve on boards, courts, commissions and like organizations.

(3) On March 28, 2003, the President signed an amendment to Executive Order 10448 that extends the eligibility criteria for award of the NDSM to members of the selected Reserve of the Armed Forces of the United States in good standing during the period beginning September 11, 2001 to a date to be determined to be eligible for award of the NDSM.

(4) Any member of the Army National Guard or U.S. Army Reserve who, after December 31, 1960, becomes eligible for the award of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Vietnam Service Medal, is also eligible for award of the NDSM. The NDSM may be awarded to members of the Reserve Component who are ordered to Federal active duty regardless of the duration (except for categories listed above).

(5) To signify receipt of a second or subsequent award of the NDSM, a service star will be worn on the service ribbon by U.S. Army personnel so qualified. Second or third award of the NDSM is authorized for soldiers who served in one or more of the three time periods as listed in paragraph (a) of this section. It is not authorized for soldiers who met the criteria in one time period, left active duty and returned during the same period of eligibility. (Service stars are described in § 578.61)

(6) Cadets of the U.S. Military Academy are eligible for the NDSM, during any of the inclusive periods listed above, upon completion of the swearing-in ceremonies as a cadet.

(7) The NDSM may be awarded posthumously.

(b) Description. On a Bronze medal, 11/4 inches in diameter, an eagle displayed with inverted wings standing on a sword and palm branch, all beneath the inscription “NATIONAL DEFENSE”. On the reverse is a shield taken from the Coat of Arms of the United States with an open wreath below it, the right side of oak leaves and the left side of laurel leaves. The ribbon is 13/8 inches wide and consists of the following stripes: 7/16 inch Scarlet 67111; 1/32 inch White 67101; 1/32 inch Old Glory Blue 67178; 1/32 inch White; 1/32 inch Scarlet; center 1/4inch Golden Yellow 67104; 1/32 inch Scarlet; 1/32 inch White; 1/32 inch Old Glory Blue; 1/32 inch White; and 7/16 inch Scarlet.

[FlyTiger77]

Getting a medal for simply joining is a bit ridiculous, IMHO.  Can you say "participation trophy"?

Oh I don't know, a little something for giving up many of your rights as a American Citizen deserves a little something, don't ya think?

I thought that was why we receive the Loyal Order of the LES.

Especially those of us that did so during a time of war...

But the Army Service Ribbon doesn't differentiate that, the National Defense Service Medal does.

There is very little that the ASR tells someone that the uniform itself doesn't.

[SARDOC]

Cadets at all of the service academies continued to receive the NDSM in between the periods where it was not awarded to the rest of the military (1975-1990 and 1995-2001).

They're SPECIAL!! Ironically unless they're prior service, their service dates don't start until they graduate.

I've discussed this with a couple of midshipman.  Yes, their service dates don't start until they graduate but because they are members of the IRR there PEBD is when they start their respective academy.  So When they graduate they are automatically being paid as a O1 over 4.  I've found this to be true only for service academy grads but not the other Commissioning programs unless they were prior enlisted.

[Private Investigator]

But the Army Service Ribbon doesn't differentiate that, the National Defense Service Medal does.

There is very little that the ASR tells someone that the uniform itself doesn't.

On a sidenote from my Army Guard days; Our nickname for the Army Service Ribbon was ' the Gay Pride ribbon', it is so, well pretty   

[PHall]

But the Army Service Ribbon doesn't differentiate that, the National Defense Service Medal does.

There is very little that the ASR tells someone that the uniform itself doesn't.

On a sidenote from my Army Guard days; Our nickname for the Army Service Ribbon was ' the Gay Pride ribbon', it is so, well pretty   

Now that DADT is gone, the name fits!

[Private Investigator]

But the Army Service Ribbon doesn't differentiate that, the National Defense Service Medal does.

There is very little that the ASR tells someone that the uniform itself doesn't.

On a sidenote from my Army Guard days; Our nickname for the Army Service Ribbon was ' the Gay Pride ribbon', it is so, well pretty   

Now that DADT is gone, the name fits!

Now that is funny   :clap: