CAP Medals

[Shuman 14]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

Is there some regulation against full size medals or is it some tradition not addressed in actual regulations?

Just curious.

[SarDragon]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

Is there some regulation against full size medals or is it some tradition not addressed in actual regulations?

Just curious.

I don't know all the history, but simply put - CAP doesn't wear medals on anything except the mess dress, where the minis are worn. Full size medals are not mentioned in any version of CAPM 39-1, which goes all the way back to 1961.

[THRAWN]

What Dave said....

Combine that with the cost. Why should the organization pay to stock all of the everyman medals that we have when nobody is going to ever wear them? The argument could be made for personal awards (i.e. Achievement through SMOV), but a full sized Membership Medal? Nah....

[BillB]

The only full size medals CAP has has were the Falcon award and Medals of Valor. None could be worn on CAP uniforms, only the ribbons or mini medals on Mess Dress.

[THRAWN]

You forgot the DSM.

The only full size medals CAP has has were the Falcon award and Medals of Valor. None could be worn on CAP uniforms, only the ribbons or mini medals on Mess Dress.

[ColonelJack]

I might add that the AF doesn't have any uniforms on which full-size gongs are worn.  (Well, except for those godawfully-ugly things worn by the incoming and outgoing CSAF and the CMSAF at the last change of command.  Ugh.)

Many SMs (myself included) would willingly purchase full-size medals of the CAP decorations and higher training awards (Garber and Wilson, at least) for shadowbox display.  Perhaps Vanguard should consider it ...

Jack

[Al Sayre]

Unlikely.  You know some clown would get a USMC Medal Bar and show up wearing the big ones on their Mess Dress...

[AlphaSigOU]

I wouldn't mind seeing full-size gongs (for presentation, not uniform wear) of the remaining Form 120 decorations (ESA, MSA, ComCom, Achievement and Lifesaving). Ditto with the Gill Robb Wilson and for the cadinks the Spaatz and Eaker (and for the Oooold former cadinks the Cadet COP). Anything else would be overkill.

The jacked-up uniform worn at the AF Chief of Staff's change of command was nothing more than the officer version of the USAF band tunic with the general officer's dress pistol belt. (Generals do have the privilege of wearing variations of the standard uniforms.)

[Eclipse]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

The reality is that most Senior Awards aren't "presented" at all.

For every "shake and take" at a staff meeting or banquet, there's 100 (1000?) that are sent via email, regular mail,
handed informally in a dark garage at night, and far too many that are approved and never awarded to the member,
only to be found behind a file cabinet or under a coffee cup a decade later.

[Flying Pig]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

The reality is that most Senior Awards aren't "presented" at all.

For every "shake and take" at a staff meeting or banquet, there's 100 (1000?) that are sent via email, regular mail,
handed informally in a dark garage at night, and far too many that are approved and never awarded to the member,
only to be found behind a file cabinet or under a coffee cup a decade later.

Yup.... been that guy

[ColonelJack]

The jacked-up uniform worn at the AF Chief of Staff's change of command was nothing more than the officer version of the USAF band tunic with the general officer's dress pistol belt. (Generals do have the privilege of wearing variations of the standard uniforms.)

That doesn't mean it wasn't godawfully ugly.

Jack

[AlphaSigOU]

The jacked-up uniform worn at the AF Chief of Staff's change of command was nothing more than the officer version of the USAF band tunic with the general officer's dress pistol belt. (Generals do have the privilege of wearing variations of the standard uniforms.)

That doesn't mean it wasn't godawfully ugly.

Jack

Agreed... that was a fugly uniform!

[Garibaldi]

The jacked-up uniform worn at the AF Chief of Staff's change of command was nothing more than the officer version of the USAF band tunic with the general officer's dress pistol belt. (Generals do have the privilege of wearing variations of the standard uniforms.)

That doesn't mean it wasn't godawfully ugly.

Jack

Agreed... that was a fugly uniform!

To make a hopefully appropriate comment, it fell out of the fugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, was hit by a falling branch, a gust of wind blew it back to the top and it fell again.

[flyboy53]

I might add that the AF doesn't have any uniforms on which full-size gongs are worn.  (Well, except for those godawfully-ugly things worn by the incoming and outgoing CSAF and the CMSAF at the last change of command.  Ugh.)

Many SMs (myself included) would willingly purchase full-size medals of the CAP decorations and higher training awards (Garber and Wilson, at least) for shadowbox display.  Perhaps Vanguard should consider it ...

Jack

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Full-sized medals are worn as ordered or required in the Air Force. More often than not, you will see them on the uniforms of honor guards or on general officers during formal ceremonies.

As far as the CAP is concerned, however, miniature medals are a product of when CAP was finally authorized to wear the Mess Dress Uniform. I asked the same question about the lack of full-sized medals once to the National Historian and again to a close friend of his who has been around the organization long enough to know. In addition to the cost factor, I was told both times that the lack of medals and the preference of ribbons had something heraldry-wise to do with our status as the Air Force's civilian auxiliary. That status also had something do with why there is a lot of white in our ribbons.

How true that is, is beyond me because I wasn't given any references to back up those comments.

I really think, however, that Vanguard ought to work with NHQ and come up with some full sized medals in presentation cases and offer them for sale, Not sure if they would be a big seller, but at least the option would be out there as a member's choice. If they do, I would hope that the collaboration also would produce a better design for some miniature medals like the awful looking Commander's Commendation Award -- there really wasn't a whole lot of imagination used on that one.

[Panache]

The jacked-up uniform worn at the AF Chief of Staff's change of command was nothing more than the officer version of the USAF band tunic with the general officer's dress pistol belt. (Generals do have the privilege of wearing variations of the standard uniforms.)

That doesn't mean it wasn't godawfully ugly.

Jack

Agreed... that was a fugly uniform!

To make a hopefully appropriate comment, it fell out of the fugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, was hit by a falling branch, a gust of wind blew it back to the top and it fell again.

Anybody got a picture, or at least a link?  My curiosity is getting the better of me.

[James Shaw]

The primary reason was due to the fact that they are not authorized on any current uniform. That is except for the initial presentation of the Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor, Distinguished Service Award, and at one time the Falcon Award.

They give you one of the full size medals, no mini. If you get the SMV, BMV, or DSA. You have to buy replacements directly from NHQ. They have the list of "authorized recipients". They charge about $8 for the mini or full size and a few bucks for the ribbon.

The cost to produce was also a direct factor. How many people would actually order them. This also created a potential problem. People wearing them anyhow on the uniform without them being authorized.

There was a effort at one time to select a few of the awards to produce on the full size scale.
1) Gill Robb Wilson
2) Life Save
3) Spaatz
4) Mitchell

They were deemed the most worthy of sorts to produce. The effort died out several years ago due to lack of support.

There was even a small attempt at making the SMV a neck medal. folks got "upset" that it would be like trying to equate it to the MOH. There were plenty of other non profits that did the same with their "top award" and no one complained about that. So that died out very quickly. I believe that someone even made a model of the proposed idea. There are several threads on here that already hash it out.

I think the four already listed would be perfect additions.

[flyboy53]

The primary reason was due to the fact that they are not authorized on any current uniform. That is except for the initial presentation of the Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor, Distinguished Service Award, and at one time the Falcon Award.

They give you one of the full size medals, no mini. If you get the SMV, BMV, or DSA. You have to buy replacements directly from NHQ. They have the list of "authorized recipients". They charge about $8 for the mini or full size and a few bucks for the ribbon.

The cost to produce was also a direct factor. How many people would actually order them. This also created a potential problem. People wearing them anyhow on the uniform without them being authorized.

There was a effort at one time to select a few of the awards to produce on the full size scale.
1) Gill Robb Wilson
2) Life Save
3) Spaatz
4) Mitchell

They were deemed the most worthy of sorts to produce. The effort died out several years ago due to lack of support.

There was even a small attempt at making the SMV a neck medal. folks got "upset" that it would be like trying to equate it to the MOH. There were plenty of other non profits that did the same with their "top award" and no one complained about that. So that died out very quickly. I believe that someone even made a model of the proposed idea. There are several threads on here that already hash it out.

I think the four already listed would be perfect additions.

I think I would just start with the Spaatz and Wilson awards because they represent the peak of the cadet and senior member training programs.

I wonder what prestige it would lend to the achievement and presentation of both awards?

What does it take to get someone at NHQ to start that process?

[Private Investigator]

The primary reason was due to the fact that they are not authorized on any current uniform. That is except for the initial presentation of the Silver Medal of Valor, Bronze Medal of Valor, Distinguished Service Award, and at one time the Falcon Award.

The full size medal makes for an old fashion, classic photo op. But framed certificates for the other awards are fine, JMHO.

I like ceremonies and it is a shame we do not recognize the Senior Membership like we do the Cadets. That is what makes a Cadet Squadron so enjoyable. When a Cadet promotes they really shine at the moment. 

[Private Investigator]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

Answer: Because we are the "mini-me" of the Air Force.   

[Garibaldi]

Question: Why are most CAP Senior Awards presented only in mini-medal form?

Answer: Because we are the "mini-me" of the Air Force.   

Sooooo....Ma Blue is Dr. Evil, and CAP is Mini-Me?

"We shall call it...mini me. And the planes shall have frickin' laser beams on their wings. And each member will be placed in an easily escapable situation involving ABUs and an overly elaborate and exotic promotion system. ENGAGE THE UNECESSARILY SLOW FLIGHT RELEASE MECHANISM! We shall leave them alone and not actually witness them working and assume everything goes according to plan."