Civilian jacket in CAP uniform

[lordmonar]

Airman De Ruitere,  The problem is that you don't understand leadership.

Define leadership.

The art and science of accomplishing the mission with a group of people.

The regulations are not the mission.  They are important.....but they are not the mission.

ANY.....I say again ANY regulation that interferes with the mission is to be ignored.

NOW....having just said that.........One of the hard lessons of leadership is how to teach people when and how to ignore regulations.

That takes time, maturity and wisdom.   

So.....slow the roll.....back off the "but the regs say" and the "but national says".......Yes the regs say and Nathion says.....but there is a chain of command to interpet and enforce regulations and national's policies.   As a new member and junior leader just dipping your toes into the waters of this gray sea......know and follow the regs.  Seek advice from YOUR chain of command on anything that you don't understand and FOLLOW their guidance.   One day you will have been a BTDT kind of guy and you can make the judgement calls and disregard the regs.  But until you do.....just chill.

[Abby.L]

  ...But until you do.....just chill.

Preferably without freezing in -6 degree weather as a result of your own inability to cope with change, but whatever floats your boat! 

[Airman De Ruiter]

I would have sent you home. Simple and problem solved. At the same time, the rest of the cadets in their lowly civilian coats would get to do what they came to do.

I don't see what rule I broke to deserve being dismissed. Obviously the consensus is to allow civilian jackets, but to mandate it seems a little...

[SarDragon]

I would have sent you home. Simple and problem solved. At the same time, the rest of the cadets in their lowly civilian coats would get to do what they came to do.

I don't see what rule I broke to deserve being dismissed. Obviously the consensus is to allow civilian jackets, but to mandate it seems a little...

You broke the safety rule. You do not endanger yourself, or others. Being outside in air that cold definitely endangers yourself.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I would have sent you home. Simple and problem solved. At the same time, the rest of the cadets in their lowly civilian coats would get to do what they came to do.

I don't see what rule I broke to deserve being dismissed. Obviously the consensus is to allow civilian jackets, but to mandate it seems a little...

You broke the safety rule. You do not endanger yourself, or others. Being outside in air that cold definitely endangers yourself.

^+1

It's one thing to forget your "regulation" jacket, but to show up without one at all? MUCH WORSE. It shows that you did not think, it shows that your parents did not think, and I would NOT want the liability of you getting sick or loosing fingers to be on me. Where were the SMs from your squadron?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^+2.

As a former safety officer of many years standing, and as a current assistant safety officer, Safety is Job 1, Priority 1...period.

That comes from both CAP and the Air Force.

I am not going to gig a cadet for wearing a civilian jacket when it's cold enough to freeze the blood.

I will, and have, gigged cadets for insisting on unsafe behaviour (trying to PT in sleet/freezing rain; in addition to the obvious temperature issues, it's way too easy to slip and fall in such conditions), and I would do so in these circumstances.  As I've told cadets time and again, CAP isn't Full Metal Jacket.

Take a good look at the chart LGM30GMCC provided, and remember well that hypothermia can creep up on you before you're even aware of it.

How do you know when you're too cold?  You're shivering.

There is a safety self-test on E-Services about freezing temperatures that I suggest you have a look at.

[Rick-DEL]

^+1

Safety - Always rule #1

We preach that to our cadets....Jackets !!!!

[Ned]

Just a side note.

Running in the winter is just part of running.  Even on icy roads.  Or when it is snowing.

Same for PT.

Sure, take precautions against falls.  That's just routine ORM.  I sure wouldn't allow cadets to attempt the shuttle run in an icy parking lot.

But I hope no one is suggesting that cadets can never do PT when it is cold outside.  Or snowing.  Or even raining.

It just takes proper preparation and ORM.

Ned Lee
Running Enthusiast

[Stonewall]

Just a side note.

Running in the winter is just part of running.  Even on icy roads.  Or when it is snowing.

Same for PT.

Sure, take precautions against falls.  That's just routine ORM.  I sure wouldn't allow cadets to attempt the shuttle run in an icy parking lot.

But I hope no one is suggesting that cadets can never do PT when it is cold outside.  Or snowing.  Or even raining.

It just takes proper preparation and ORM.

Ned Lee
Running Enthusiast

PT is like ES/SAR, it still happens, regardless of weather...to an extent.

Stonewall
Runner but I hate it

[ol'fido]

Not to mention that with some of our smaller cadets that if they tried to wear even the smallest uniform jacket/coat look like Yoda they would.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If you don't have the money, that's unfortunate...deal with it.

With the last topic that has been locked....this some is certainly a troll...

[Airman De Ruiter]

If you don't have the money, that's unfortunate...deal with it.

With the last topic that has been locked....this some is certainly a troll...

Not really, that's, as wrong and deluded as has been the concensus, what I legitimately believe.

[CDCTF]

Here's my take on the whole civie jacket in uniform. At our squadron the policy is...

1.) Wear the prescribed jacket/outerwear
if you don't have it....
2.) Wear a black, dark blue, or brown solid colored jacket (in that order of preference)
if you can't hack that....
3.) Wear a jacket of appropriate warmth.

Even with that policy. I had two cadets show up to our meeting on the coldest day of the year (15 degrees, windchill well into the single digits) with NO jackets. That made me infinitely more angry than them showing up with a bright orange civilian jacket.

The one thing that torques me off is the members that have the means to buy an approved jacket but choose not to, just to be different.

[Abby.L]

Here's my take on the whole civie jacket in uniform. At our squadron the policy is...

1.) Wear the prescribed jacket/outerwear
if you don't have it....
2.) Wear a black, dark blue, or brown solid colored jacket (in that order of preference)
if you can't hack that....
3.) Wear a jacket of appropriate warmth.

Even with that policy. I had two cadets show up to our meeting on the coldest day of the year (15 degrees, windchill well into the single digits) with NO jackets. That made me infinitely more angry than them showing up with a bright orange civilian jacket.

The one thing that torques me off is the members that have the means to buy an approved jacket but choose not to, just to be different.

I like that. I really do. My squadron has a policy pretty similar to that, and it works. It's conservative(No Hello Kitty or MLP jackets, thank goodness) and looks decent for the most part, dependent on the jacket worn.