What uniform do most seniors wear at your squadron meetings?

[Captain Needa]

We had a Squadron meeting tonight.  There was a safety briefing.  We had brief reports from all the department heads.  We discussed the implications of the TFR for the VP debate.  We nailed down details and dates for upcoming meetings with the state police commissioner, the Commanding General of the KY Air National Guard, and a local ES agency.  We went over details of two O-Ride weekends coming up.  We developed a plan for the Squadron to fund our training for the rest of the year if Wing funds do not become available.  We went over the final statistics from the Counterdrug season that just ended.  We welcomed two new members and our Recruiting Officer fingerprinted them and helped them with their paperwork.  I stayed after the meeting to help a member enter his SQTR's in eServices.  It was a very full and productive meeting.  We did not have time to discuss the fact that only two people were wearing uniforms.

Perhaps if following the regulation were an expected practice--as it should be with any reg--you wouldn't have NEEDED to take time and talk about it.  You probably didn't take time to talk about how a safety brief was required, either, you just DID it.  How are uniforms any different?   

[LGM30GMCC]

We had a Squadron meeting tonight.  There was a safety briefing.  We had brief reports from all the department heads.  We discussed the implications of the TFR for the VP debate.  We nailed down details and dates for upcoming meetings with the state police commissioner, the Commanding General of the KY Air National Guard, and a local ES agency.  We went over details of two O-Ride weekends coming up.  We developed a plan for the Squadron to fund our training for the rest of the year if Wing funds do not become available.  We went over the final statistics from the Counterdrug season that just ended.  We welcomed two new members and our Recruiting Officer fingerprinted them and helped them with their paperwork.  I stayed after the meeting to help a member enter his SQTR's in eServices.  It was a very full and productive meeting.  We did not have time to discuss the fact that only two people were wearing uniforms.

"We did not have time to discuss the fact that only two people were wearing uniforms." Wanna bet?

"Hey everyone. It's been brought to my attention that CAP regulations actually require us to wear uniforms for our regular activities including squadron meetings. While we haven't done this in the past we do need to do this to make sure we are complying with the rules. Now, the minimum uniform required is either the Gray and White Aviator Shirt or Short Sleeve AF-Blues style uniform. Your initial packets have descriptions of them but if you need additional help please let me know. Now, I know we may not want to wear those on a weekly basis so I'm going to designate that the polo-shirt combination is an acceptable substitute for squadron meetings unless otherwise stated. I'll send out a letter later this week to clarify if needed. We need to all be in uniform by the end of November, if this is a problem please let me know sooner rather than later." I timed myself...that took 45 seconds to say out loud. Let's see if we can find 45 seconds in your meeting time...

"We had brief reports from all the department heads." There's a chance for the unit commander to inject it.

"We welcomed two new members and our Recruiting Officer fingerprinted them and helped them with their paperwork." Hey there's another perfect time.

Seriously, that excuse was weak to say the very least. It's not a 'discussion', it's a statement. In my little statement I even gave folks a reasonable deadline (6 weeks) to come into compliance and an even easier combination to use. (I'm not a fan of that, but it is technically allowable.) But that statement covers the why, the when, and even gives the real minimum uniform required. And you've already said folks have uniforms for flying and such, so no excuses there for folks not having them.

[ranviper]

I'm in an all senior flight squadron here in central NY, and thus we're all usually in our sage green flight suits. Helps that most of the guys are active duty or retired AF, so I got my flight suit free.

[Captain Morgan]

A CAP member and a recruit were walking across a parking lot to attend a CAP meeting.
RECRUIT: "Hey, that guy in the Prius just mooned me!!!"
CAP MEMBER:"Oh, thats our Squadron Commander.  He's just changing into his uniform so we can present a professional image."
RECRUIT:"Classy.  Uh, I just remembered -- I promised my wife I would floss the dog tonight.  Maybe I'll catch you guys next week ..."

[PHall]

A CAP member and a recruit were walking across a parking lot to attend a CAP meeting.
RECRUIT: "Hey, that guy in the Prius just mooned me!!!"
CAP MEMBER:"Oh, thats our Squadron Commander.  He's just changing into his uniform so we can present a professional image."
RECRUIT:"Classy.  Uh, I just remembered -- I promised my wife I would floss the dog tonight.  Maybe I'll catch you guys next week ..."

Nice try, but it did your case no good what-so-ever...

[Captain Morgan]

Pictures from the Legislative day prep meeting last year in Washington DC:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/civilairpatrol/6813096346/#in/set-72157629526560779/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/civilairpatrol/6959208607/#in/set-72157629526560779/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/civilairpatrol/6959208927/#in/set-72157629526560779/

Very few uniforms. This scandalous behavior permeated our leadership at the National, Regional, and Wing levels. Chances are YOUR Wing leadership participated! Pictures were posted so the world would see how unprofessional we were.  We should cancel Legislative Day in 2013 to deal with this serious uniform issue!  You guys need to show up next year with bats and pitch forks and put a stop to this.

[LGM30GMCC]

Why are you fighting this so vehemently?   

So there are cases where members do not wear uniforms for every activity, I'll grant you that. But by and far it is, and should be, the exception rather than the rule.

You strike me as more and more desperate, backed into a corner, flailing wildly about with your hands over your ears 'LA LA LA YOU CAN'T MAKE ME DO IT! NO NO NO NO NO'.

We're not saying you shouldn't serve, or that we don't appreciate the work that is done. We are just saying that during your day to day operations, your weekly squadron meetings you should be wearing uniforms. Your 'Oh look he's changing in his CAR!' fantasy is easily countered by saying 'Use a restroom, not that hard.' Presumably said member came from somewhere with one even if your meeting location doesn't have one.

It's a simple exercise for the vast majority of the time. I'd be willing to bet those same wing/region/national leaders you are calling on for legislative day would say 'Yes, you should be in uniform' especially if confronted with those cites from the reg. Unfortunately, quite a few members, even commanders, are not fully aware of those rules. That comes from the way they were raised up and the fact that many MANY people still are under the impression it is 'only required' during flight or cadet operations.

[SarDragon]

That's called "selective observation". Don't look, don't notice, don't comment. Treat it like you didn't see a thing.

[wuzafuzz]

This conversation is one more example of CAPR 39-1 needing to be edited to catch up with reality.  As currently written and interpreted by some people, I should don my CAP uniform to participate in a CAP conference call.  After all, that's part of my normal duties as a CAP member.  And then there are my nightly net check-in's and my weeks as net control station. Not only that, I better watch out for those alert pages.  Even if I'm at work, should I presto change-o into my uniform before making calls to find a flight or ground crew?

Of course those examples are ridiculous, as is an overly rigid interpretation of the vague term "normal duties."  I suggest reasonable people will continue to disagree until we have a better definition.  Until then we rely on our commanders or activity directors to exercise some discretion and clarify expectations.


39-1 Table 1-1:
Wear: when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1). 

[RiverAux]

Yes, those examples are ridiculous.  Considering a squadron meeting an activity requiring a uniform is most certainly not. 

[Eclipse]

Pictures from the Legislative day prep meeting last year in Washington DC:

Why do you keep bringing up a legislative days preparation meeting as if it was even relevant to this conversation?

[Sapper168]

I watched the videos for the winter 2012 NB meeting at legislative day and i couldn't see one person who was not in blues, blazer combo or a suit of some sort.  This leads me to believe that prep day(s) were just that, prep, and had a uniform standard, civilian dress casual as prescribed by the commanding authority. I wasn't there mind you its just an educated guess given the usual SOP for these types of events.

[VNY]

The last selection board for California Wing Commander was conducted by four full colonels from region HQ - all were wearing Pacific region polo shirts (not even a real uniform) and blue jeans - to conduct a wing commander selection board.

They later showed up at a squadron awards banquet dressed the same way.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The last selection board for California Wing Commander was conducted by four full colonels from region HQ - all were wearing Pacific region polo shirts (not even a real uniform) and blue jeans - to conduct a wing commander selection board.

They later showed up at a squadron awards banquet dressed the same way.

Of all people, they should know better.

[BSU Commander]

That situation doesn't change the requirement any more than if would if they had worn Mess Dress uniforms to both events.

[VNY]

That situation doesn't change the requirement any more than if would if they had worn Mess Dress uniforms to both events.

I hardly question their motivation or effectiveness - this was just an example that on the west coast at least, the lack of emphasis on uniforms comes from the top.  Its just not what they consider important.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I hardly question their motivation or effectiveness - this was just an example that on the west coast at least, the lack of emphasis on uniforms comes from the top.  Its just not what they consider important.

(Jeff Spicoli voice from Fast Times At Ridgemont High)

Maybe it's that laid-back, peaceful easy feelin', California Dreamin', lifestyle, dude?

[Check Pilot/Tow Pilot]

That situation doesn't change the requirement any more than if would if they had worn Mess Dress uniforms to both events.

I hardly question their motivation or effectiveness - this was just an example that on the west coast at least, the lack of emphasis on uniforms comes from the top.  Its just not what they consider important.

The majority of our members wear a CAP uniform during our monthly meetings.  We are a Senior Squadron in Oakland, California (we like to say the West Coast).  However, four years ago that was not the case.  It took leadership and setting the example from the senior staff to encourage members to wear their uniform to the monthly meetings.

Let be realistic about how long it takes to change into Blue and Greys.  Wear grey pants, black shoes, and a black belt with a civilian shirt.  Take the civilian shirt off, put on the blue polo and tuck it in.  60 seconds to change and off you go.  You don't even have to press the polo!!

[Flying Pig]

That situation doesn't change the requirement any more than if would if they had worn Mess Dress uniforms to both events.

I hardly question their motivation or effectiveness - this was just an example that on the west coast at least, the lack of emphasis on uniforms comes from the top.  Its just not what they consider important.

The majority of our members wear a CAP uniform during our monthly meetings.  We are a Senior Squadron in Oakland, California (we like to say the West Coast).  However, four years ago that was not the case.  It took leadership and setting the example from the senior staff to encourage members to wear their uniform to the monthly meetings.

Let be realistic about how long it takes to change into Blue and Greys.  Wear grey pants, black shoes, and a black belt with a civilian shirt.  Take the civilian shirt off, put on the blue polo and tuck it in.  60 seconds to change and off you go.  You don't even have to press the polo!!

As a SqCC, My DC and I made every effort to come in blues.  My other members were pretty good about being in at least the polo combo.  There were a few times I had to come in civies because I was coming straight from work and was pretty filthy from the work day.  I figured going in dirty was better than not going at all.  But when you make the effort 95% of the time, coming in when it just wasnt possible to change over isnt a big deal.