CAP Fatigue Uniform Proposal

[Garibaldi]

BDUs are better for training cadets and outdoor use, plus BDUs are plentiful. For those who actually do some flying they can go ahead and get themselves a flight suit.

Meh...flight suits were in vogue in 1986 after Top Gun. I only see a few on the flight crews here.

usually they are only seen on new pilots until they fly their first CD flight in the Arkansas Summer....

I know I saw a couple of them at y'all's SAREX a couple weks ago...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My favoured choice would be already-available solid OD green BDU's with dark blue insignia.

Failing that, I see nothing wrong with BBDU's.

NOMEX bags really aren't good outside of flight ops.  I have a non-NOMEX dark blue one...just fine.

I rarely make absolute statements...but we are NOT getting ABU's.

[AlphaSigOU]

I still have my DeKalb patch AND flash...you know, the one you had to do all sorts of stuff for like rappelling off Whiteside and navigating 3000 meters. There were a couple other requirements but I forgot them. All you had to do for a DeKalb patch was be a member in good standing for 6 months. I also have a couple GAWG patches, both subdued and colored. You know, the good one!

Long live PDK!

Maj B. sent me the flash as well after I transferred to FL Wing, but I lost it in one of my many moves...

[Private Investigator]

My favoured choice would be already-available solid OD green BDU's with dark blue insignia.

I would second that proposal.   :clap:

[Danger]

Those are cool and all, but I favor sticking with BDUs. The only thing I would consider wanting to change is the color of the name / CAP tapes. But that's not even bad. I think everyone should try to accept BDUs, there isn't any need to have ABUs other than "to look cool."

[Stonewall]

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

1.  I hate 2 different uniforms (I'm not fat nor am I fuzzy), I just hate the segregation.

2.  Although I hate ABUs (I wear them in the Air Guard), I would rather wear them to be in line with the AF.

3.  I love BDUs, but I hate that I can't go to a military base and buy them.  If you order them, they are often NOT the military issue ones and I only have one set left.

4.  The [unofficial] proposed uniform I showed in my first post is an exact copy of the Army's ACUs except that it's solid OD green.  Yes, I really LOVE solid OD green.  I always thought that our blue name tapes fit perfectly on them.  With the velcro, you sew one set of patches/tapes/rank and you can just transfer them between fatigues.

5.  I personally hate the BBDUs.  I don't hate them for being blue (I wore similar set as a cop in the past), but I do not like them for CAP.  I feel like a Coastie and if I wanted to be a Coastie, I'd drive 3 miles down the street to the USCG Aux.  I am a HUGE supporter of the military aspect of CAP, including uniforms.  But what trumps that just a hair, is my hatred of 2 different uniforms.

Perfect world:  Everyone in CAP wearing BDUs

Even more perfect world:  Everyone in CAP wearing ABUs (although I hate ABUs)

[Angus]

Just my nikel's worth here I'd love to see us get the ABU at some point only because it is the field uniform of our parent organization.  But until that day arrives I wouldn't mind seeing a few minor changes to what we do have to make it look sharper.  It was mentioned previous in this thread but ye I think we should start to phase in a change in our tapes, I think a darker blue would be better for both the BBDU and the BDU.  The slanting of the pockets would be a high cost cause as of right now to my knowledge no one makes them like that so we'd have to go and find someone to produce them, so it wouldn't be cost effective for the company to produce them like that.   Also while I'm proud to be an American I also think we should nix the reverse flag, this is to be in keeping with our parent organization, the Air Force doesn't wear them anymore.   

[Stonewall]

The slanting of the pockets would be a high cost cause as of right now to my knowledge no one makes them like that so we'd have to go and find someone to produce them, so it wouldn't be cost effective for the company to produce them like that. 

Click here.

By the way, here are the results from the last poll.

[Eclipse]

^ You know you're setting up a few circular arguments of your own.

These would be in at least as "limited" supply as BDUs (which I don't agree are in "limited supply" for the majority of members who have never bought anything on a military base or from AAFES).

They would not be available from MCSS.

At least the "pain" of the expense would be borne by all.

[AngelWings]

The problem here is why do we need to get away from the ABU's and why exactly is everyone so sure they are going to say no? Someone please elaborate.

[Stonewall]

^ You know you're setting up a few circular arguments of your own.

These would be in at least as "limited" supply as BDUs (which I don't agree are in "limited supply" for the majority of members who have never bought anything on a military base or from AAFES).

They would not be available from MCSS.

At least the "pain" of the expense would be borne by all.

[joking]Bob!  One word:  "VELCRO"  It's kind of like how a mustache helps you in combat.  It just does! [/joking]

[Eclipse]

The problem here is why do we need to get away from the ABU's and why exactly is everyone so sure they are going to say no? Someone please elaborate.

1 - The USAF itself will not be wearing ABU's much longer, the writing's on the wall.

2 - Camo uniforms serve no purpose in ES.

3 - Adoption of the ABU's would most likely continue the artificial and unnecessary division of our membership, a division which literally
sacrifices mission execution for aesthetics.

4 - As a uniform itself, it isn't universally loved by a long shot, and was apparently designed by committee.

5 - see #1

[Eclipse]

[joking]Bob!  One word:  "VELCRO"  It's kind of like how a mustache helps you in combat.  It just does! [/joking]

Heh - in the right conditions, opening and closing the pockets might be more effective than a survival whistle!

"I can't see him, but I can hear him!"

[Garibaldi]

The problem here is why do we need to get away from the ABU's and why exactly is everyone so sure they are going to say no? Someone please elaborate.

1 - The USAF itself will not be wearing ABU's much longer, the writing's on the wall.

The only thing I've heard is that the Army has admitted making a $5B mistake with the ACU. Haven't heard the AF say anything like that.

2 - Camo uniforms serve no purpose in ES.

Yet we've had them since the 1990s.

3 - Adoption of the ABU's would most likely continue the artificial and unnecessary division of our membership, a division which literally
sacrifices mission execution for aesthetics.

Same argument as it was when the AF transitioned from pickle suits to BDUs.

4 - As a uniform itself, it isn't universally loved by a long shot, and was apparently designed by committee.

Agreed. It is heavy, the interior pockets serve no purpose, and WTF does the AF need with tiger stripes? BUT...but, IIRC, the test phase involved several designs tested by Airmen and officers for a long test period and this was the design they agreed worked best.

5 - see #1
No 

[Eclipse]

2 - Camo uniforms serve no purpose in ES.

Yet we've had them since the 1990s.

And the only reason we've had them is service affinity with the USAF.  That became 100% true when the regs were
changed to disallow wear of the BDU without grade for those out of grooming or weight.

The value of the affinity needs to be weighed against the loss of esprit-de-corps within CAP that is caused by having two field uniforms as well as
the unsuitability of a camo uniform in ES.

I would hazard that service affinity is of most value to the cadet program (it has value for the seniors, but not at the same level in this context).

Certainly a better situation then the current one would be having cadets in ABUs and seniors in BBDUs.  That fixes about 10 issues day one, and
would present a uniform, professional appearance externally, without unnecessarily and artificially dividing the seniors.

[Angus]

The slanting of the pockets would be a high cost cause as of right now to my knowledge no one makes them like that so we'd have to go and find someone to produce them, so it wouldn't be cost effective for the company to produce them like that. 

Click here.

By the way, here are the results from the last poll.

I meant I don't know of any in blue with slanted pockets and I have looked. 

[Eclipse]

I meant I don't know of any in blue with slanted pockets and I have looked.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14365.msg259480#msg259480

http://bdu.com/propper-tac-u-coats/lapd-navy

[Angus]

I meant I don't know of any in blue with slanted pockets and I have looked.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=14365.msg259480#msg259480

http://bdu.com/propper-tac-u-coats/lapd-navy

Ok so I looked in the wrong places.   But I would like to say though I don't see a need for us to have slanted pockets. 

[Eclipse]

Ok so I looked in the wrong places.   But I would like to say though I don't see a need for us to have slanted pockets.

Slanted pockets are used to allow at least partial access under web gear straps.  If you're wearing a full vest, it's probably moot, although
I have found that they are a little easier to access when riding the bike.

I especially appreciate the shoulder pockets.

[abdsp51]

1 - The USAF itself will not be wearing ABU's much longer, the writing's on the wall.

Cite please from a valid source and not military.com or a AF Times snippet.