Maybe CAP will one day wear Berets?

[Dad2-4]

I do take some offense to the notion that USAF washouts end up in SF, but I'll forgive you. I thought washouts ended up in transportation or supply. I personally knew 2 SF guys that got in trouble and were in VERY short order transferred into supply.
BTW, the beret in CAP is a sore subject with me because I worked hard in the USAF to earn it and keep it, then (in my personal experience) a couple of spoiled, arrogant kids comes back from NBB and shove it everyone's face like they're God's gift to CAP.
On that note, when I was AD, almost all cops wore a squadron ball cap except while performing duties requiring blue uniform combinations.

[PHall]

On that note, when I was AD, almost all cops wore a squadron ball cap except while performing duties requiring blue uniform combinations.

You had a pretty liberal Squadron/Base Commander then. Because that was not the norm.
This is based on seeing lots of cops at lots of bases. I was a C-141 FE and we traveled a lot!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

From what I know, a good chunk of people who go in open general end up in SF.  That's not to denigrate SF or people who go in open general.  Of course, with the ANG and AFRES it's different since you're being hired to fill a specific position.

My unit meets on an ANG installation.  Most of the SF's I see are wearing their beret, including with ACU's.

FlyTiger77: You must mean the service cap, because you can't really put the flight cap on with one hand and it sure doesn't keep the sun out of your eyes.

[FlyTiger77]

FlyTiger77: You must mean the service cap, because you can't really put the flight cap on with one hand and it sure doesn't keep the sun out of your eyes.

Actually, I am an Army guy and I prefer the patrol cap. No, I am not a big fan of the flight/garrison cap, either (but it does fit nicely in your pocket).

[Flying Pig]

Beret = Gay

I'll never wear one.

Slurs like that are uncalled for.

Time to lock?

Oh good grief PC police....lighten up.

Anyway, I was in the Army Res from 1997-2000.  Before everyone in the Army wore berets.  I was with an infantry training unit and part of OPFOR (remember the guys who used to dress like russians?)  We wore black berets and were authorized to wear our "russian" uniforms while at Drill.  Everyone hated the berets.  When the Army switched to them, in the early days many soldiers actually refused to wear them.  To this day most don't like them.  Shinseki wasn't one of the most respected Chiefs the Army has had.  His idea that a hat makes you feel "elite" conveyed to us (the troops) that he thought of us as kids who needed a piece of candy to motivate us.  Its is still something I havnt figured out.  I never wore mine outside of my OPFOR duds.  Of course, I also had my Marine Eagle Globe and Anchor stamp on my cammie pocket in plain sight too the whole time I was in

[Private Investigator]

Anyway, I was in the Army Res from 1997-2000.  Before everyone in the Army wore berets.  I was with an infantry training unit and part of OPFOR (remember the guys who used to dress like russians?)  We wore black berets and were authorized to wear our "russian" uniforms while at Drill.  Everyone hated the berets. 

Roger that. OPFOR name tags! How cool was that.

To the OP, no on berets in the CAP.

[Private Investigator]

Again, having said that, I think that a grey-blue beret would look good with (and add MUCH-needed colour to) the G/W combo:



...and if worn without insignia, it is civilian, and thus would very likely not violate 39-1.

Now that will go great with my aviator shirt and grey slacks.   

[Flying Pig]

Anyway, I was in the Army Res from 1997-2000.  Before everyone in the Army wore berets.  I was with an infantry training unit and part of OPFOR (remember the guys who used to dress like russians?)  We wore black berets and were authorized to wear our "russian" uniforms while at Drill.  Everyone hated the berets. 

Roger that. OPFOR name tags! How cool was that.

To the OP, no on berets in the CAP.

I forgot, the big red star and the russian infantry crest touched it off nicely:)

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[LGM30GMCC]

These are my views on the berets:
In the military, they are more commonly worn by specially selected units. The biggest exception is USAF Security Forces. Security Forces tends to have many First Term Airmen and is one of the larger career fields for enlisted. (Especially on our missile bases.) Among them, there are those who wear the beret properly, proudly and do well. There are also quite a few who wear their beret in a sloppy manner, with it faded, sweat-stained, and just look bad.


In CAP:
I went to NBB in 2000 and 2001. I earned the beret in that program, and at the time there was quiet a bit of confusion as to whether to wear it or not. Under the direction of my commander I did not wear it. When I moved to college it was authorized but I wound up choosing not to wear it. The main issue was the Mx involved and the fact it was not comfortable during summer (too hot) or winter (too cold.)

It sat in my dresser for years and eventually I became a commander of my own unit. I thought about it, and decided not to allow it during our activities. The reason for this was uniformity. If folks were really proud of their accomplishment of NBB (and it isn't easy, nor is it anything like military training) they have a patch they could wear.

We had a cadet officer that attended NBB, he asked if he could wear the beret when he came back. I said no. He did it anyway, and things started going badly from there. From the time he was talking about how NBB was the 'hardest activity in CAP' and the 'best' one. He and I had a little chat about that kind of attitude. The key was, he had this attitude about other things already. NBB wasn't the issue, his behavior was the issue and I fully believe he would have acted that way no matter what NCSA he had gone to.

Most of my cadets that attend NCSAs come back, had a great time, worked hard, share their experiences, and don't cop an attitude. They know it isn't tolerated. There are those that go to an activity (doesn't matter which one) and come back with a bad attitude. It isn't the activity, it's the cadet, for all the activities.

Overall View:
The beret itself is very high-MX to get set-up, it has to fit properly, and does not age well. (Not everyone wears the correct size, and it winds up waaay too small and sitting far above where it is supposed to or at very strange angles.)

It is more expensive than a flight cap.

It is harder to carry around than a flight cap.

It provides no sun protection, and in a warm environment it retains a lot of heat. You're essentially wearing a wool watch cap on your head. In the winter, it doesn't protect both ears like an actual watch cap.

In the end they are impractical, expensive, hot, high-MX hats. And since not everyone wears one, they become non-uniform in a standard CAP squadron setting.

(Amusingly enough, for these very reasons, when Kennedy-administration authorized their wear for Army SF during Vietnam...they stopped wearing them in the field. This continues to today. Good luck finding guys going on an operational mission and doing all the stuff they do wearing one.)

[lordmonar]

These are my views on the berets:
In the military, they are more commonly worn by specially selected units. The biggest exception is USAF Security Forces.

And the entire US ARMY!

[abdsp51]

I would disagree with it being hi mx. Provided the time is taken when a beret is first received it is hardly hi mx afterwards.  I have worn it for 12 years both in the heat and cold and when it gets super cokd and you elect to not put a watch cap on thats your perogative, but don't gripe its cold.  Like any uniform item over tine it will fade and become unservicible.  And the appearance issues you pointed out is one not caring and lack of leadership failing to correct it.  Not the headgear itself.   And for USAF SF there is a history and lineage behind it not simply because of the AFSC.

[AngelWings]

The berets look stupid. It looks like a deflated pancake sewn to headband. It surely is one ugly way of looking different. They are extremely unpractical, too. I have yet to see someone whip out a beret from their BDU cargo pocket or pull it out from being neatly tucked under their belt on the Blues.

As previously stated, cadets with attitudes will act with attitude, no matter what event. The event may be a catalyst for such attitudes to become noticable, but I doubt people who go to NBB develop any attitude except for one with more confidence and pride.

If someone is truely proud of their experience and wants to show his/her pride, they will do so through positive behavior.

[Grumpy]

No.

And on a personal note, I prefer a flight cap over a beret any time of the day.

+1 

I hated that thing from the time we started wearing it to the time I retired in '88

[SPD6696]

Okay...well let's define elite.

Airborn are pretty elite....not everyone volunteers and passes the jump school....but they are not really all that elite.  Rangers are pretty tought....but not really all that tough when compared to SF guys.
SF guys are tough but even withing the SOC community they are not considered the baddest of the badd.

For the record, I hate the word "elite".  It conjures up images of poorly written Mack Bolan novels.   Now, as far as the above, I have to say, unless one has been there and done it, and has a full understanding of all that is involved with any of the above communities, one probably should not be making uninformed comments that tend to minimize and insult some of the finest, most highly trained soldiers in the world.  Yes, I've worked around all 3 of the above (both in the Army and AF), and I hold them in the highest regard.


On the USAF side.

Cops are a default career field.....if you wash out of just about everything else you can always be a cop (sorry to all you USAF SF guys out there....I know you work hard and do a lot of stuff....but let's be honest here....you guys have more than your fair share of rocks.)
JTACS are pretty cool......but are not really all that elite.
Weather Jumper......I actually know a few of them....pretty tough....but it is basically weather school and jump school.
Combat Control......JTACS on steroids
PJ......90% drop out rate during the first 8 weeks.....and that is just the selection process!

So....bottom line is that the idea that berets were only for elite forces....is and always has been false.  It is just bling for different force to build esprit de corps and increase their unit effectivness.

Security Forces is not a "default " career field.   Ignorant and inflammatory remarks such as this only fuel poor morale and service in-fighting.  Some of the most dedicated and professional Airmen I've had the pleasure to serve beside were SF.  EVERY career field has it's slugs and stars.

TACPs  are pretty squared away.    I've known a few, and, the TACP assigned to US Army Special Forces that I bumped into in A-stan in '01 was no slouch.

Special Operations Weather.  I know one.  Not a slacker field, either.

I dare you to tell a Combat Controller that he is just a JTAC on steroids.  Again, I've worked with these guys, and they are, also, not a slacker field.

PJs.  Obviously, you are a PJ fanboy.  Yes, they are the bees knees.

And now the AF, in it's infinite wisdom, has added a pewter-greenish beret for Survival Instructors.

Bottom line?  The beret is an impractical, uncomfortable hat.  It is widespread throughout the rest of the world, including some of those rubber boot wearing "armies" in Africa, as well as any number of other latrine hole countries.  Don't covet the beret.   Once that particular beast is hung around your neck, you will regret it.   It's simply a silly hat.

[GTRanger]

Okay...well let's define elite.

Airborn are pretty elite....not everyone volunteers and passes the jump school....but they are not really all that elite.  Rangers are pretty tought....but not really all that tough when compared to SF guys.
SF guys are tough but even withing the SOC community they are not considered the baddest of the badd.

For the record, I hate the word "elite".  It conjures up images of poorly written Mack Bolan novels.   Now, as far as the above, I have to say, unless one has been there and done it, and has a full understanding of all that is involved with any of the above communities, one probably should not be making uninformed comments that tend to minimize and insult some of the finest, most highly trained soldiers in the world.  Yes, I've worked around all 3 of the above (both in the Army and AF), and I hold them in the highest regard.


On the USAF side.

Cops are a default career field.....if you wash out of just about everything else you can always be a cop (sorry to all you USAF SF guys out there....I know you work hard and do a lot of stuff....but let's be honest here....you guys have more than your fair share of rocks.)
JTACS are pretty cool......but are not really all that elite.
Weather Jumper......I actually know a few of them....pretty tough....but it is basically weather school and jump school.
Combat Control......JTACS on steroids
PJ......90% drop out rate during the first 8 weeks.....and that is just the selection process!

So....bottom line is that the idea that berets were only for elite forces....is and always has been false.  It is just bling for different force to build esprit de corps and increase their unit effectivness.

Security Forces is not a "default " career field.   Ignorant and inflammatory remarks such as this only fuel poor morale and service in-fighting.  Some of the most dedicated and professional Airmen I've had the pleasure to serve beside were SF.  EVERY career field has it's slugs and stars.

TACPs  are pretty squared away.    I've known a few, and, the TACP assigned to US Army Special Forces that I bumped into in A-stan in '01 was no slouch.

Special Operations Weather.  I know one.  Not a slacker field, either.

I dare you to tell a Combat Controller that he is just a JTAC on steroids.  Again, I've worked with these guys, and they are, also, not a slacker field.

PJs.  Obviously, you are a PJ fanboy.  Yes, they are the bees knees.

And now the AF, in it's infinite wisdom, has added a pewter-greenish beret for Survival Instructors.

Bottom line?  The beret is an impractical, uncomfortable hat.  It is widespread throughout the rest of the world, including some of those rubber boot wearing "armies" in Africa, as well as any number of other latrine hole countries.  Don't covet the beret.   Once that particular beast is hung around your neck, you will regret it.   It's simply a silly hat.

Try telling the last line to a green beret and see where it gets you lol

[SPD6696]

A green beret is a silly hat.  The man is a Special Forces Soldier.

[arajca]

Okay...well let's define elite.

Airborn are pretty elite....not everyone volunteers and passes the jump school....but they are not really all that elite.  Rangers are pretty tought....but not really all that tough when compared to SF guys.
SF guys are tough but even withing the SOC community they are not considered the baddest of the badd.

For the record, I hate the word "elite".  It conjures up images of poorly written Mack Bolan novels.   Now, as far as the above, I have to say, unless one has been there and done it, and has a full understanding of all that is involved with any of the above communities, one probably should not be making uninformed comments that tend to minimize and insult some of the finest, most highly trained soldiers in the world.  Yes, I've worked around all 3 of the above (both in the Army and AF), and I hold them in the highest regard.


On the USAF side.

Cops are a default career field.....if you wash out of just about everything else you can always be a cop (sorry to all you USAF SF guys out there....I know you work hard and do a lot of stuff....but let's be honest here....you guys have more than your fair share of rocks.)
JTACS are pretty cool......but are not really all that elite.
Weather Jumper......I actually know a few of them....pretty tough....but it is basically weather school and jump school.
Combat Control......JTACS on steroids
PJ......90% drop out rate during the first 8 weeks.....and that is just the selection process!

So....bottom line is that the idea that berets were only for elite forces....is and always has been false.  It is just bling for different force to build esprit de corps and increase their unit effectivness.

Security Forces is not a "default " career field.   Ignorant and inflammatory remarks such as this only fuel poor morale and service in-fighting.  Some of the most dedicated and professional Airmen I've had the pleasure to serve beside were SF.  EVERY career field has it's slugs and stars.

TACPs  are pretty squared away.    I've known a few, and, the TACP assigned to US Army Special Forces that I bumped into in A-stan in '01 was no slouch.

Special Operations Weather.  I know one.  Not a slacker field, either.

I dare you to tell a Combat Controller that he is just a JTAC on steroids.  Again, I've worked with these guys, and they are, also, not a slacker field.

PJs.  Obviously, you are a PJ fanboy.  Yes, they are the bees knees.

And now the AF, in it's infinite wisdom, has added a pewter-greenish beret for Survival Instructors.

Bottom line?  The beret is an impractical, uncomfortable hat.  It is widespread throughout the rest of the world, including some of those rubber boot wearing "armies" in Africa, as well as any number of other latrine hole countries.  Don't covet the beret.   Once that particular beast is hung around your neck, you will regret it.   It's simply a silly hat.

Try telling the last line to a green beret and see where it gets you lol

You'll either get reducated or they'll buy you a round for having a pair of brass ones.

[PHall]

Security Forces is not a "default " career field.   Ignorant and inflammatory remarks such as this only fuel poor morale and service in-fighting.  Some of the most dedicated and professional Airmen I've had the pleasure to serve beside were SF.  EVERY career field has it's slugs and stars.

Dude, if you can get in the Air Force, you can be a cop.  So lose the 'tude.

Oh, and the biggest collection of criminals on base is usually the Cop Squadron.
Don't believe me? Just check and see which squadron hands out the most Article 15's.

And before you get all indignant, I am a Retired MSgt with 31-1/2 years of service. So I might know a little bit of which I speak.

[Flying Pig]

Thats funny.  I was talking to my little bro.  There were 4 guys who academically dropped from crew chief school. He said all four went to security forces .  My good friend is a CMSgt in security forces says himself that its the default career field.  Its what the grunts are to the Army and Marines were his words.  However that doesnt mean the troops in it are sub standard.  Generally speaking if you drop from any of the special ops parts of the AF you usually end up in SF if your a first term enlistee.