Maybe CAP will one day wear Berets?

[GTRanger]

So, I know that the fact that the Army is phasing out berets has been discussed in the past. But, I've never seen it discussed whether or not CAP may one day get to wear these. Past history and logic shows that, whatever uniforms are phased out by the military ,will most likely be what we end up eventually wearing. Here is the link to the story about the Army phasing out berets, if you haven't seen it.  http://asktop.net/articles/move-out-beret-the-patrol-cap-is-in/ Do any of you see the air force phasing out berets as well? Do you think we may one day all be wearing berets?

[AngelWings]

So, I know that the fact that the Army is phasing out berets has been discussed in the past. But, I've never seen it discussed whether or not CAP may one day get to wear these. Past history and logic shows that, whatever uniforms are phased out by the military ,will most likely be what we end up eventually wearing. Here is the link to the story about the Army phasing out berets, if you haven't seen it.  http://asktop.net/articles/move-out-beret-the-patrol-cap-is-in/ Do any of you see the air force phasing out berets as well? Do you think we may one day all be wearing berets?

Berets would look nice with the A's but would be terrible and unpracticle with the BDU's. I say no in general to it all, because I don't feel like having to shave and wear a wet beret just to get it to be form fitting and all of that stuff.

[GTRanger]

Well, we already know that it's gonna be a long time before we can wear the A's... I personally think it would look pretty stylish. I've seen guys in woodland BDUs wearing berets, cant remember where or why exactly, and it looked pretty cool.

[lordmonar]

1.  The army is NOT phasing out the beret....they are just not wearing them in ACU's...as the primary hat....they are still authorised for wear with the ACU at the commander's discretion.
2.  CAP is already authorised to wear berets.....see 39-1 for instructions.
3.  I don't know what you mean by "what ever uniform the military phases out is the one we get".....AFAIK we have always followed the lead of the USAF....maybe not right away....but when they transitioned to blues we did too. when they went from OD to BDU we followed, when they changed the service coat so did we. 

No...I don't see the USAF elminating berets nor do I see CAP changing its reg anytime soon.

[Patterson]

Although CAP is the last organization to be allowed to wear new military uniforms after a phase-in, it has never been the normal procedure to place CAP in a uniform that has been phased out of the military. 

Logic is backwards here, CAP will not purposely introduce uniforms or accessories that are being removed from inventories on the scale that the black beret will present.

Nice try, but for a beret may I suggest National Blue Beret!

[abdsp51]

The AF will not phase out the beret.  The Army only phased it out for wear with ACUs and not across the board.  That was a bad move on the Army Chief of Staff at the time as a moral booster and stripped the color from the Rangers instead of finding a different color not in use.  And in twelve years of service the AF actually added a beret to the mix. And because it looks cool is not a reason to push for one.

[GTRanger]

Hmm, I was under the impression that NBB academy's berets werent authorized outside of NBB.

[titanII]

Well, we already know that it's gonna be a long time before we can wear the A's...

I can't speak for him/her, but I'm fairly sure that Littleguy meant "Class A's" (service dress uniform), not ABU's when he/she said "A's".

[lordmonar]

Hmm, I was under the impression that NBB academy's berets werent authorized outside of NBB.

Search Function is your freind....we just stopped a 10 page discussion on this.

NBB berets are authorised by the NB for wear outside of the even....see Knowledge Base for details....and check with your commander.

Also wing commanders can authorised the beret IAW 39-1 for special wear.....again check with your commander.

[GTRanger]

im merely trying to start a conversation about whether or not berets may one day become an option to cap members. not trying to start a debate over capm 39-1 or NBB

[SarDragon]

Mentioning the beret in any context will usually start a debate.

IMHO, it is highly unlikely that CAP will EVER get to wear berets for general use. The blue things from NBB cause enough controversy, that we don't need an additional source. It is an ugly and impractical hat for what CAP does, and I see no place for it.

That said -

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[spacecommand]

No.

And on a personal note, I prefer a flight cap over a beret any time of the day. 

[GTRanger]

No.

And on a personal note, I prefer a flight cap over a beret any time of the day.

it does seem like flight caps are more suited towards the AF/CAP goals, in the fact that it is more practical to our cause. Me personally being from a family full of high ranking army NCOs, I tend to think in somewhat the same manner as them, call it "hooah" if you will. I personally think the beret should be used in the CAP, but as an award, not just for NBB. And if it will only remain a NBB thing, I am of the opinion that members should be allowed to wear it freely outside of the event. I have not seen anything in CAPM 39-1 about berets, and I personally own a copy of it, and am going through it right now. Does anyone have a link pertaining to the current wear of berets in CAP? And please, no more " the search feature is your friend" stuff. All I can find is a bunch of pages of debating about berets.

[lordmonar]

And the boat sinks a little deeper.

Berets are in 39-1...and the boast that "you own a copy" only says that your attention to detail is a little off.

Second reason you are sinking.....

Good thing you are from an Army Family and like army things.....CAP is CAP.....it the USAF auxillary....not the ARMY aux.  So I appreciate that you like the beret...I do too.....you are barking up the wrong tree with that justification.

Have you searched the CAP pubs site?  You are looking for CAPM 39-1 and the ICLs.
Also...if you read some of those beret debates you would find that the rules for the NBB wear are found on Knowledge Base.

[GTRanger]

And the boat sinks a little deeper.

Berets are in 39-1...and the boast that "you own a copy" only says that your attention to detail is a little off.

Second reason you are sinking.....

Good thing you are from an Army Family and like army things.....CAP is CAP.....it the USAF auxillary....not the ARMY aux.  So I appreciate that you like the beret...I do too.....you are barking up the wrong tree with that justification.

Have you searched the CAP pubs site?  You are looking for CAPM 39-1 and the ICLs.
Also...if you read some of those beret debates you would find that the rules for the NBB wear are found on Knowledge Base.

1. Thanks - editted so there is less chance of a misinterpretation.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As I have said before, I don't understand the attitude that the U.S. military has toward the beret.

To us it's either something to be avoided or a mark of distinction, earned by being a special sort of troop.

In other nations, it's just a form of headgear, often issued as soon as you get the rest of your kit issued, and it's just what you wear, whether with a service dress uniform or a field uniform...no matter if you're a new recruit:


(Canadian Army recruits)

or a high-ranking officer:


(German Army Brigadier Generals)

I just don't understand what our simultaneous reverence for/aversion to a simple item of headgear is all about.

Again, having said that, I think that a grey-blue beret would look good with (and add MUCH-needed colour to) the G/W combo:



...and if worn without insignia, it is civilian, and thus would very likely not violate 39-1.

Will it ever be allowed with the AF-type uniform?  I highly doubt it...though it would certainly be distinc****.

[titanII]

As I have said before, I don't understand the attitude that the U.S. military has toward the beret.

To us it's either something to be avoided or a mark of distinction, earned by being a special sort of troop.

Now I might have some details incorrect, which some of you more seasoned (read: older) gentlemen can fill in  but...
IIRC the beret has "special" or "elite" connotations in the US military because it was first worn (in the US military) by elite units during WWII, who borrowed it from the Europeans.
So.... the US military's attitude to the beret is simply based on "the way it was" and/or "tradition". Personally I like the idea of having the beret only be an "elite unit" type thing. Reminds me of John Wayne in "The Green Berets".

edited for clarity

[lordmonar]

Okay...well let's define elite.

Airborn are pretty elite....not everyone volunteers and passes the jump school....but they are not really all that elite.
Rangers are pretty tought....but not really all that tough when compared to SF guys.
SF guys are tough but even withing the SOC community they are not considered the baddest of the badd.

On the USAF side.

Cops are a default career field.....if you wash out of just about everything else you can always be a cop (sorry to all you USAF SF guys out there....I know you work hard and do a lot of stuff....but let's be honest here....you guys have more than your fair share of rocks.)
JTACS are pretty cool......but are not really all that elite.
Weather Jumper......I actually know a few of them....pretty tough....but it is basically weather school and jump school.
Combat Control......JTACS on steroids
PJ......90% drop out rate during the first 8 weeks.....and that is just the selection process!

So....bottom line is that the idea that berets were only for elite forces....is and always has been false.  It is just bling for different force to build esprit de corps and increase their unit effectivness.

[a2capt]

Besides, what then- if they switched the hats, would it be called NBFC instead of NBB?

If they ever 'mandated' (changed) to it, that would be the day I get a service cap instead. ... and I hate those things.

[FlyTiger77]

I prefer a hat that will keep the sun out of my eyes and that I can put on with one hand.