Dropping Brown Shirts?

[blkhwk]

 In the instances I have seen where there were different colored shirts, they were provided by the activity. (2-4 EA.) As far as inquiring as to the flight a Cadet belongs to, It's not a question of not wanting to, it's a question of not needing to. Then the first question would be "why are you not with your flight?" I do not mean to imply that the cadets would be scattered all over the place, BUT we all know at LEAST two or three that need a leash. (and maybe a muzzle)

As far as keeping track of 15-20 cadets.... all three of my encampments had five flights with 25-40 per flight. There was A-D, with 25-30 EA. Then another flight for "advanced" cadets.  These were mostly there for their 2nd or third time, but over and above the number required to fill staff positions. There were 40 or so of these, and I don't remember the flight's name, but it was not a phoenetic alphabet type name.   Mostly these Cadets were doing the GSAR stuff, or FTX in the field, while the rest were doing "basic training" I remember some real sadistic ELT hiding shenanigans going on then.... like a former sniper backpacking one around, one being placed in one of the GT member's ruck. (That one was beautiful, by the way....  and you all have my permission to use that one too.), and one on a metal canoe out in a lake near some transmission lines. (aaahh, those were the days) But back to keeping track, we have to remember, the leadership is mostly comprised of cadets as well, who are also involved in whatever the training event happens to be. It would be easy for a cadet or two to wander off. Then if you happen to encounter an orange shirt by the barracks, when you know the orange shirts are supposed to be in Moral Leadership, then you ask them why they are there. If everyone is in the same color shirt, you wouldn't know immediately when one is out of place. There are times when due to classroom size, or instructional effectiveness, an encampment's classes have to be broken down by flight.

[RiverAux]

And then there are times when you see a cadet (or cadets) doing something that probably needs some reporting but isn't serious enough for you to break off whatever important tasks you're working on to go have a conversation with them. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You should not feel as though you shouldn't need to ask, it is all too simple to ask a simple question... "What flight are you in?"

[RiverAux]

Don't see where anyone has said that they were afraid of asking.  Not sure where that came from.   

[blkhwk]

Personally, it seems almost cowardly to put out t-shirts so one doesn't have to ask a cadet what flight they're in. If you don't have the guts to do that, then you shouldn't be in a leadership position in the first place.   

RiverAux....right there....  ^

   Also, it's not just a question of having to ask.... it's just that you can tell at a glance.... "one of these fellers needs to be redirected back to his AO..."
As senior staff, it is unlikely that you would know  who was in what flight, unless maybe you have a cadet that "makes a name for himself" early on.

 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

It's not really that anyone said anything about not wanting to ask. It is just that it really seems that it is implied that it's how some feel. Almost, you should be wearing something so I don't have to ask, I don't want to ask so I am going to try to get around it. I don't see why there is a need to make different uniforms. There is uniformity for a reason. If nothing else it's there to make the cadets feel like everyone is on the same team. Yes, you have flights and they need to make a team of their own, but they should not feel like they are on opposing sides "enemies" of the other flights. We are all USAF Aux. We are all on the same team. Everyone is together.

[blkhwk]

 I agree with that. How I look at it, is not a way of making separate teams within a team. It is merely a tool to be used to help see IMMEDIATELY that someone is not where they belong, or to maybe assist a new Cadet that may be feeling a little lost, a little bewildered find his flight. At least that is how it was used here when it was used.  It was still "One Team, One Fight", but it can be difficult at times to keep 150 or so youngsters where they need to be.

And, it was authorized, on paper even, as a temporary addendum to 39-1. With suspense of COB on the last day. Toward the end, a lot of the Cadets would have the other members of their flight sign one of their T-shirts. Typically this would happen earlier in the day before we did a pass in review to officially end the encampment. I think I still have all three of mine. I feel old....that was 1995 for the first one.....

  So....Red Baron (paraphrasing on the name) you still in?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I can understand the desire (edit desire to need) to be able to see immediately what flight they belong to.

Yes I agree safety over uniformity!

My only issue is non-uniformity just irritates me. I can't get over the idea that there is uniform regulations for a reason. To step away from that just kinda bugs me. Regulation is set, black and white, authorized/ not authorized.

Ok, So long as the uniform is put out well before the activity, and it is explained that the cadet is not to purchase the non-regulation uniform items. It needs stressed In large bold on the packing list, you need this item, but it will be provided. Not in an asterisk that says in fine print on the bottom of the page, orange t shirts will be provided.

[Hawk200]

It is merely a tool to be used to help see IMMEDIATELY that someone is not where they belong, or to maybe assist a new Cadet that may be feeling a little lost, a little bewildered find his flight.

If there's a cadet that's not one of yours, then you pretty much know that they're someplace they don't belong. It shouldn't take a T-shirt to tell you that.

As to a bewildered cadet, that's definitely one that you need to actually speak to. Just yelling at them to go find their flight isn't gonna really help them. Stop them, ask where they're supposed to be and who their flight commander or TAC is, help them find out where to go. Be civil, even polite, and that individual will have a better experience (and develop more respect for you on top of everything). Leadership should be helpful, it works better that way.

We shouldn't be adopting a Barney approach to leadership. Colored t-shirts are doing just that. At an encampment, I seriously doubt that it's going to generate any serious problem by stopping for a minute, and simply asking "Where are you supposed to be?" Leadership isn't gonna be and shouldn't be made an easy thing. We need to teach it the right way from the start, not making it easy on ourselves and in turn making those we're leading think it's supposed to be easy.

As has been pointed out, uniformity exists for a reason. Subdividing members of one team into other little teams with funky colored T-shirts is where we start generating "cliques", "divisions", and other elitist attitudes. Having differences in that manner is where we start getting our people thinking that they should be set apart in other ways. It seems to me that's the seed that turns into the idea that there needs to be a separate patch for every little thing. We're planting that seed. Today, it's a T-shirt; tomorrow it's a patch or badge for the "elite"; the next day is an even worse self adopted item that is no longer "uniform." Where does it end? Why should it even start?

I'm beginning to think maybe we should drop brown T-shirts. They're getting harder to find, and black isn't. It also puts everyone in the same thing. And that's the point of uniformity.

[RiverAux]

Subdividing members of one team into other little teams with funky colored T-shirts is where we start generating "cliques", "divisions", and other elitist attitudes.

Guess we need to stop giving out awards for honor flights then. 

[Hawk200]

Subdividing members of one team into other little teams with funky colored T-shirts is where we start generating "cliques", "divisions", and other elitist attitudes.

Guess we need to stop giving out awards for honor flights then.

That's out of context, and you full well know it. Honor flight is a good thing, elitism is not.

Liberalism doesn't belong here.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That's out of context, and you full well know it. Honor flight is a good thing, elitism is not.

Liberalism doesn't belong here.

Honoring those who go above and beyond the core values is the way to get all to want to do the same.

Level One: Foundations says something to the effect that the best way to motivate volunteers is to give recognition for a job well done. That is true, it is. Even the in the RM, there is recognition for living and performing above and beyond. Yes, in the RM you are not classified as a "volunteer" but, you did volunteer to sign that contract and serve your nation. Giving recognition motivates those who might otherwise be less motivated.

Living up to the Core Values is a good thing, it is great. But it is also expected. Isn't it great to live above and beyond the standard? Recognizing those who do, is the best way to get those who only wish to do the standard strive for better.

[RiverAux]

Wow, now utilizing different colored shirts not only promotes elitism, but liberalism too. 

[Hawk200]

Wow, now utilizing different colored shirts not only promotes elitism, but liberalism too.

And now you go even further out of context.

[blkhwk]

 The color of the shirt has nothing whatsoever to do with cliques.... I never even said I particularly cared about their use. They are just A tool used to simplify command and control.  Unlike some of us, some people have no REAL WORLD experience in moving groups of people around like sometimes happens at an encampment. Also, these cadets can be as young as 12... while there are some spectacular kids in the program.... they are just that. Yes, you can ask one "what flight are you in". Most will come right out with it. Every now and then, you will have one that will freeze up. Like I said, kids... most are away from home, many for the first time, and may be nervous. Anything you can do to make it a bit easier will ensure that they stay in, and maybe come back as staff. You never know, that cadet that is too nervous at first to be able to respond to a senior member he's never seen before when he is 12, may be a Spaatz Cadet at 16-17.

  Plus, getting that out of the way immediately frees up more time for productive activity.

[Hawk200]

The color of the shirt has nothing whatsoever to do with cliques.... I never even said I particularly cared about their use. They are just A tool used to simplify command and control.  Unlike some of us, some people have no REAL WORLD experience in moving groups of people around like sometimes happens at an encampment. Also, these cadets can be as young as 12... while there are some spectacular kids in the program.... they are just that. Yes, you can ask one "what flight are you in". Most will come right out with it. Every now and then, you will have one that will freeze up. Like I said, kids... most are away from home, many for the first time, and may be nervous. Anything you can do to make it a bit easier will ensure that they stay in, and maybe come back as staff. You never know, that cadet that is too nervous at first to be able to respond to a senior member he's never seen before when he is 12, may be a Spaatz Cadet at 16-17.

Then you have a learning experience on both sides of the equation. Seniors that need to learn how move groups of people and be leaders, and cadets that need to learn how to come out of their shell. Both have to do it someday.

Leadership is not an easy thing. As difficult as it is, it is worth doing well. It's not about screaming and yelling at people. I see too much of this at encampments, then the flight leaders complaining that their cadets don't like them. Leadership is about interacting with your troops, not identifying them by colors or googaws. Learning leadership and establishing rapport is certainly productive activity.

Substituting a T-shirt for leadership qualities is a serious fail.

[blkhwk]

 Like I said, I don't care one way or the other myself. As long as it's not illegal, immoral, or just plain stupid, I just do what is dictated by higher HQ. All the really good screw-ups come from above my pay grade anyway.... who am I to screw with tradition. On the shirts thing, you can take it or leave it as far as I am concerned. I do see where they can be useful, that is the position I was taking throughout this exchange.

   As far as screaming and yelling, As  my soldiers know, I am actually fairly soft spoken. I can lay down some yelling if i have to, most of the time it is unnecessary.  I think the last guy I yelled at for real was overseas. He was a complete knucklehead. He was reduced in rank for a pattern of behavior that had to do with being almost totally technically inept, lazy, had hygiene issues, etc. He came to us an E-4, and when we redeployed, he was an E-1. The reason I yelled at him was he got mad because he had to get off his butt that day, and to show his contempt for the NCO's he tried to kick the disco ball off the top of a blackhawk. (You blackhawk guys are probably groaning about that one....) Needless to say, he got chewed out for a bit. Hell, we took turns. That is the ONE time I have ever had a private actually locked up at Parade Rest while yelling at him.

[vorter]

GAWG did much the same thing. What did this accomplish?

Not a whole lot, since we also had specific "Flight Caps" with colors AND embroidered flight letter: A-FLT, B-FLT, etc.

Also, it meant myself and every other cadet in my unit (and many in the Wing) had to spend more money on brown shirts, which Wal-Mart does not carry... We did get a good deal, but guess how many black shirts we had? Yeah, plenty.

EXACT THING I WAS THINKINGGG!!!!
wow I had to buy 3 brown shirts from the Hock Shop (Yep, no store anywhere had the color) and I had like 10 black ones

BTW Golf  flight owned, dont deny, and are you going to FLWG Winter? im staffing