Identifying some patches from NESA photos

[Eclipse]

^We've had plenty of fun over the years with bad uniform threads, here and elsewhere, however they usually prove o be contentious and counterproductive.  Most of the really active ones were before Facebook hit big, so I would imagine that now we'd have no issue whatsoever finding lots.

With that said, not all the examples above are a problem, or probably not for the reasons you're thinking, which is where the "fun" starts.

Both of the patches on the flight suit are wrong today, but that depends on when the photo was taken.

One interpretation of the existing ICL/manual situation allows for berets to be worn outside NBB.

I don't see any modification to the jacket other than the ES patch worn incorrectly - this is likely at a "Wreaths" laying and considering its done during the winter, BDU's are pretty common.

Boonies obviously are a non-starter in any USAF combo.

Saluting in the corporates is pretty common, seriously nitpick elsewhere.

Yeah, metal rank = no, not to mention he appears to be wearing the luggage tag as a CAP tape and his spacing is a mess.

[Eclipse]

Oh my. The blue beret is not allowed for wear on military bases, and that's where she was.... Being that USAF Security Forces wear the beret.

Our headgear is not restricted based on being on a military base - either its authorized or it isn't.

In this case, if you ascribe to the 2006 Board minutes allowing for the wear, then being on a base is irrelevant.

[A.Member]

If you look at her albeit unauthorized but admittedly decorated uniform, she probably does a lot of work, as opposed to the "two washes" idea. The badges she does have aren't exactly handed out like candy.

So?

The fact that someone may or may not "do a lot of work" does not excuse them from wearing the uniform correctly.   

It's expecially sad that she's a Lt Col.   If anyone should know how to wear a uniform correctly, it should be a Lt Col.  The OP examples were all very blatant violations.

[DakRadz]

a. Removal of “U.S. Civil Air Patrol” tape on the Battle Dress Uniform and
CAP Blue Field Uniform. Members are now authorized to return to the “Civil Air
Patrol” tape on the BDUs, field uniforms and field jackets immediately. The mandatory
wear date for the “Civil Air Patrol” tape and phase out of the “U.S.” version is 1 March
2010.

So, while they have certainly had plenty of time to do this, depending on picture dates, these may not be incorrect. Of course anything from this year's NESA is wrong because of when NESA occurred, but for those who are searching through photo sites, keep this in mind.

[A.Member]

...

With that said, not all the examples above are a problem, or probably not for the reasons you're thinking, which is where the "fun" starts.

Both of the patches on the flight suit are wrong today, but that depends on when the photo was taken.

One interpretation of the existing ICL/manual situation allows for berets to be worn outside NBB.

I don't see any modification to the jacket other than the ES patch worn incorrectly - this is likely at a "Wreaths" laying and considering its done during the winter, BDU's are pretty common.

Boonies obviously are a non-starter in any USAF combo.

Saluting in the corporates is pretty common, seriously nitpick elsewhere.

Yeah, metal rank = no, not to mention he appears to be wearing the luggage tag as a CAP tape and his spacing is a mess.

Agreed.  A couple of the nitpicks there are pretty weak, unlike those from the OP.

[DakRadz]

Poking around flickr does allow one to discover some interesting things:

One of these patches is wrong:
Eclipse addressed it.

Interesting modification to the jacket (not to mention BDUs at a cemetery):
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/3110927233_8d1de9b61d_b.jpg
I don't see any modification- on the M-65, Officers (both SM and cadet) wear the rank and CAP cutouts like that. His ES Patch? (The only thing I see) Wrong, but I just recently had to correct that on a cadet. Fairly common if they don't check regs.

Looks like a Blue Beret makes an appearance outside of Wisconsin:
Not my area of expertise.

Just how much eye-makeup is allowed?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2700/4430077464_148d6193f9.jpg
Wow... And a First Sergeant to boot. She probably shouldn't be wearing those diamonds on her rank either, unless she's the activity First Sergeant.

Nice hats- Eclipse addressed.

Saluting in a polo shirt:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4626779337_215af9b441.jpg
I will come back at this one with as much linkage as I can find. Hold.

Metal rank (was this allowed in the past perhaps?):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1061/1096126427_1d48d2da5b_b.jpg
Big no-no. *Twitch*

Agreed with above. There are many better nitpicks, or even valid concerns.

[Larry Mangum]

Lt Col Wisennand is in fact a very experienced Incident Commander and Squadron Commander. While I do not agree with the logic used to justify the wearing of the IC badge over the name tag, the justification given was CAPR 39-1, Section B, paragraph 6-2, which states that "A maximum of four badges/devices may be worn on the AF-style uniforms". Do I agree with the placement, no, especially after you read table 6-4. However, since the IC Badge is not even covered in the current 39-1 and is solely contained in an ICL, it is something that could be open to misinterpretation, even though the ICl states that it is worn in the same place as the Ground Team badge and other specialty badges.

[RVT]

1 - HMRS Ranger Tab.  Wear is controversial at best, especially outside PAWG

I tracked this one down.  This makes for an interesting read.http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1851&p_sid=o5fih26k&p_lva=1060&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_srch=1&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NzMsNzMmcF9wcm9kcz0mcF9jYXRzPTAmcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWhhd2sgbW91bnRhaW4gbWVkaWM!&p_li=

Apparently not only the ranger / medic tabs can be worn, but the blue beret itself is authorized for wear with either BDU no matter where you go.  As this is still on the knowlegebase, I think it can be assumed that it has not been rescinded.  However 39-1 doesn't define the existence of these insignia.  Based on what I can find in print, you could have a Hawk Mountain ranger tab, a Hawk Mountain Medic tab, and the two badges allowed by 39-1 all stacked up four deep on your BDU shirt and topped off with a blue beret and be walking around Langley AFB like that, and according to everything  I can find, you are correct.

This CAN'T be right - at least not anymore, considering the names I see on this.

[Short Field]

I hope it makes everyone feel more superior trashing these individuals because of their photos and relatively minor uniform violations.  Too much eye makeup on a cadet?  Get real and read the regulations.  BBDUs too faded?  Wow.  Searching the internet looking for marginally incorrect uniform violations so you can post them here?  Way too much time on your hands.

Lets just say I am very impressed by everyone's professionalism and adherence to CAP core values.

[RVT]

P
Saluting in a polo shirt:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4626779337_215af9b441.jpg

Shes Saluting.  Hes picking his nose.

Well I suppose I could have said "this is an example of an improperly rendered salute" but that doesn't really convey the message with as much impact.

[Short Field]

It is always appropriate to return a salute.

[A.Member]

I hope it makes everyone feel more superior trashing these individuals because of their photos and relatively minor uniform violations.  Too much eye makeup on a cadet?  Get real and read the regulations.  BBDUs too faded?  Wow.  Searching the internet looking for marginally incorrect uniform violations so you can post them here?  Way too much time on your hands.

Lets just say I am very impressed by everyone's professionalism and adherence to CAP core values.

The violations in the OP are not minor, especially when you consider the ranks of the individuals.

While you may not like the fact that these items were called out, everyone that's particpated in this thread has addressed the issue professionally.   If I were to have a uniform violation, I fully expect that someone point it out to me - that's our responsibility as members and it certainly is line with our core values, particularly as it pertains to excellence.

[AlphaSigOU]

Poking around flickr does allow one to discover some interesting things:

Just how much eye-makeup is allowed?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2700/4430077464_148d6193f9.jpg
Wow... And a First Sergeant to boot. She probably shouldn't be wearing those diamonds on her rank either, unless she's the activity First Sergeant.

Doesn't look that extreme to me. If she was sporting the serious goth look, then I would have a problem. The first sergeant diamond is still a bone of contention; it's not listed in 39-1, but listed in 52-16.

Saluting in a polo shirt:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4626779337_215af9b441.jpg
I will come back at this one with as much linkage as I can find. Hold.

Even though the polo shirt uniform is not a 'military style' uniform, there's no regulation that disallows customs and courtesies while in that uniform. Granted, if you work with cadets, you should wear AF-style or the grays. By tradition, if a junior recognizes a senior, salutes are customarily exchanged in civilian clothers.

Metal rank (was this allowed in the past perhaps?):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1061/1096126427_1d48d2da5b_b.jpg
Big no-no. *Twitch*

That's just lazy. Even worse is sewing on cloth grade insignia Navy style (aligned with the tip of the collar instead of parallel to the front edge).

[Short Field]

Calling out uniform violations (and perceived violations) and making fun of people on a open access website is professional?   "Shes Saluting.  Hes picking his nose" is a professional comment?  I fail to see where this conforms to CAP Core Values and I also fail to see any result except the humiliation of the individuals for the enjoyment of the poster.  Yes, inappropriate.  Where is the standard "praise in public, correct in private".  If they were posting on this site, I might feel less strongly but they are not posting here.

Do you call cadets up in front of your squadron and critique their use of makeup in front of everyone?

[Bluelakes 13]

It's not unwarranted or against our Core Values to remark on uniform issues seen on published photos.  (yes folks, anything posted on Flikr or Facebook is considered published).
It's THE WAY you do it that draws the line.
Remarks like "Wow... And a First Sergeant to boot" "TWITCH" and "Just how much eye-makeup is allowed?" are uncalled for. 
Note the indescretion so that everyone can learn from it.  Leave your personal commentary to yourself.

And as I posted on Facebook this week, it used to be we had to look hard to find photos with uniforms issues for our Level 1 uniform classes.  Facebook has now made it very easy.

[DakRadz]

The "Twitch" should have been explained-
I was thinking about some SMs I know who might do that, and the resulting conflict when someone told them they were wrong.
Meant to type that, left it off.

Now, on the saluting in polo- I will find as many cites as possible showing that he is correct for returning the salute.

[Bluelakes 13]

Moreso, some of these photos I would challenge the person posting them, like I do many times on Facebook 

The "picking his nose" comment is uncalled for, the photo was probably snapped while the arm was being raised.  Again, I would challenge the person
posting it.  Usually the answer is "that's the best I have" and then I would ask, did your commander approve it?  Usually crickets...

Cheap cameras now means that anyone can snap a photo and "publish" it.  Many forget that anything published by a PAO, or any unit member
for that matter, must be approved by their unit commander.  Is this reasonable in this century?  Maybe not, but the theory still remains.

If you wish to point an issue so we can all learn from it, fine.  I even encourage it.  But leave your colorful commentary to yourself.

[A.Member]

Calling out uniform violations (and perceived violations) and making fun of people on a open access website is professional?   "Shes Saluting.  Hes picking his nose" is a professional comment?  I fail to see where this conforms to CAP Core Values and I also fail to see any result except the humiliation of the individuals for the enjoyment of the poster.  Yes, inappropriate.  Where is the standard "praise in public, correct in private".  If they were posting on this site, I might feel less strongly but they are not posting here.

Do you call cadets up in front of your squadron and critique their use of makeup in front of everyone?

Agree on the "nose picking" comment.   Prior to that however, I see no real issues with conduct nor with the identification of obvious uniform violations. 

Given that these were published photos, do you think it's OK to allow them to pass by without comment?  If I were a cadet or new member and saw the photo of the Lt Col in her uniform what prevents me from believing this is acceptable?  After all, she is a Lt Col and certainly must know more than the average member, right?  The fact is that it's a failure to lead by example and the uniform wear does not meet the regulations nor does it meet of core value of excellence.     

[DakRadz]

From Respect On Display:
Indoors, salute
officers only when formally reporting (ie: when called forward to
receive an award).

She looks to be receiving an award/promotion to me; if not, she is definitely reporting, so-

When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of
what the officer is wearing. For example, uniformed cadets salute their
squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In
such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge
the salute, but not return it.

And if that doesn't cover it-
When in doubt, salute. Anyone may render a salute at any time if
they believe one is warranted.
~~~~
If I believe the hobo I meet in San Diego really did earn that MOH he's carrying around, I can very well salute him.
(Made up story for example)

Here's the Respect On Display linkage.
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P151_9028588D89DD2.pdf

EDIT: Could someone please post the link shortener thing, so that the link which is stretching this page can be fixed? I never saved it; I know the long link wasn't done maliciously, but I can hardly read the posts now.

[Eclipse]

tinyurl.com