Do you want to switch to ABU's?

[HGjunkie]

It's your choice CAPTalkers. What will be your decision?

[Eclipse]

No, and a moot point.

By the time we get there they won't be wearing them

[MIKE]

MultiCam is the future.

[DC]

I think CAP should keep with tradition and continue to wear a variant of whatever the Air Force is currently wearing.

However, I would not be surprised if the military adopts another standard field uniform sometime in the next few years to replace all of the ACU/ABU/MCCUU/NWU nonsense. In that case, it would be foolish for CAP to adopt a uniform that will be phased out immediately.

[Al Sayre]

Don't care, but lean towards no.  Simply another expense,,,

[RiverAux]

I voted yes, but given the likely switch to something else, don't see any reason to hurry. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The USAF already has uncountable things for us to have that makes our uniform different from theirs. What would you think that the ultramarine blue name tapes look like on the ABU? Besides their is a huge push to get rid of the digital patterns all across the military already. Why do it to our uniform when it will be gone soon anyways? I know the ABU doesn't look very good anyway. I just think it would be a bad idea any way you go about it.

[JoeTomasone]

I'd be happy to ditch the black combat boots, but if USAF is going multi-cam, I'd rather hold of until their dust settles.

[SarDragon]

Don't care. Not a whit. I wear the BBDUs.

[raivo]

What would you think that the ultramarine blue name tapes look like on the ABU?

Not much worse than they look on the BDUs.

[DakRadz]

CAP has at least 20,000 people who need the same uniform- there are over 20,000 cadets, and even if you subtract the cadets who wear SM CAP-Corporate, the eligible SM for AF-style balance it out. So 20,000 people need one uniform which looks the same- even if we don't stay aligned with Ma Blue (which would admittedly be ideal, but perhaps not practical...)- can't we come up with a uniform that is CAP?
We can recycle the vast stores of ABUs, BDUs, something AF (no ACUs IMO), but I'm sure we can force VanWrap to sell us decently priced uniforms, if we decide what those uniforms will be....

[biomed441]

Like stated by others, yeah wouldn't mind switching to ABU's. Whatever the AF wears I guess... but again pointed out by others; how long are the ABU's going to be around, and by the time we get around to switching, will the AF even be in ABU's?

Multicam is the future? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Maybe DoD will decide to surprise us with pink tu-tu's and fairy wands.

[SarDragon]

Dak, don't forget, we're not buying 20 thousand uniforms of the same size. Just averaging it out, 20K/6 sizes comes out to about 3400 uniforms per size, for a first time issue. I'm sure there is a disproportionate usage among the sizes, which will really skew any economy of scale figures. That's why we can get the stuff we are currently wearing so cheaply - they make a lot of every size. If we tried for a CAP unique utility uniform, the costs would go up significantly.

More here.

[vento]

Don't care. Not a whit. I wear the BBDUs.

X2

[DakRadz]

Dak, don't forget, we're not buying 20 thousand uniforms of the same size. Just averaging it out, 20K/6 sizes comes out to about 3400 uniforms per size, for a first time issue. I'm sure there is a disproportionate usage among the sizes, which will really skew any economy of scale figures. That's why we can get the stuff we are currently wearing so cheaply - they make a lot of every size. If we tried for a CAP unique utility uniform, the costs would go up significantly.

More here.

Okay, so I actually read some of that. Good bit really. Well, how much are the BBDUs? Rather, how much more are they compared to BDUs, woodland camo? I would say the woodland run 25-30 new. What are some BBDU figures for comparison?

[Fly Boy]

Maybe DoD will decide to surprise us with pink tu-tu's and fairy wands.

Like so?



I voted "undecided" BTW. I would like to switch but I know it will require me to part with my hard earned cash.

[DakRadz]

Maybe DoD will decide to surprise us with pink tu-tu's and fairy wands.

Like so?

Completely inappropriate to suggest.

Why in the world do you think the DoD would authorize these for the average sailor/Marine/airman/soldier?? This is obviously not a case of forward thinking, or even considering what you're really suggesting.
Absolutely ridiculous idea...

As everyone in the CAP should know, the pink tutu and fairy wand uniforms is only authorized for certified Good Idea Fairies. All CAP Generals receive this certification as part of their training- all CAP Generals are authorized the Good Idea Fairy status and uniform, PITFAW (read, pitfall- PInkTutuFAiryWand). This status is generally non-redeemable and permanently afflicting.

Special waivers may be granted for certain Colonels, while many Captains and Lieutenants are deep-dipped for this promotion through the implantation of "good" ideas. Majors and Lt Cols are usually the most immune, or at least stopped before damage can be done.

[Fly Boy]

Okay, so I actually read some of that. Good bit really. Well, how much are the BBDUs? Rather, how much more are they compared to BDUs, woodland camo? I would say the woodland run 25-30 new. What are some BBDU figures for comparison?

For the BBDU On Vanguard, (Blouse and Pants) around $60 for both, assuming you're not super small or super large. Its about the same for the BDUs

[DakRadz]

Okay, so I actually read some of that. Good bit really. Well, how much are the BBDUs? Rather, how much more are they compared to BDUs, woodland camo? I would say the woodland run 25-30 new. What are some BBDU figures for comparison?

For the BBDU On Vanguard, (Blouse and Pants) around $60 for both, assuming you're not super small or super large. Its about the same for the BDUs

Hmmm... Do I smell a CAP-distinctive uniform? But then, if we drift from field uniforms of the USAF, then might we lose the dress versions as well? Now that wouldn't be any fun.

[Fly Boy]

Hmmm... Do I smell a CAP-distinctive uniform? But then, if we drift from field uniforms of the USAF, then might we lose the dress versions as well? Now that wouldn't be any fun.

If so it would be with the Aviator Shirt. Looking at Vangaurd, the Aviator is priced signifigantly lower then the AF Blue. But at the Hock, It's the other way around.

I don't want to switch to any CAP distinctive uniform myself, (1) we are the USAF Aux, (2) I'm proud to wear the uniform that service members who fought for our country wore, and (3)I think they look good if the person wearing it actually cares.

[Fly Boy]

Completely inappropriate to suggest.

I didn't suggest it, I just provided a graphic that gave a visual.

[MSgt Van]

BBDU

[MIKE]

MultiCam is the future.

[HGjunkie]

I gotta admit, Multicam would be Hardkewl, but I'm the type of guy who wants to look like Ma Blue.

[lordmonar]

We will go to the PITFAW uniform.

Officers wear white leotards, enlisted blue, cadets will wear teal.

Rank will be denoted by the size of the wand and branch of service will be denoted by the the color of the tiara.

Pilots will still be allowed to wear their leather flight jackets! 

[HGjunkie]

We will go to the PITFAW uniform.

Officers wear white leotards, enlisted blue, cadets will wear teal.

Rank will be denoted by the size of the wand and branch of service will be denoted by the the color of the tiara.

Pilots will still be allowed to wear their leather flight jackets! 

   

[DC]

I gotta admit, Multicam would be Hardkewl, but I'm the type of guy who wants to look like Ma Blue.

The point is that MultiCam will probably be adopted as a DOD-wide uniform, including the Air Force. The Army is already using it in Afghanistan.

[Custer]

BBDU

Agreed.  There is no reason for a senior member to have camouflage anything.

We should never adopt another camoflage uniform and let the BDU die out through attrition & supply issues.

In California I can't think of any reason to even have Woodland BDU's.  I have a bunch as I'm retired Army, but I can't even justify changing the insignia on them.  There is no activity for which they would be the best choice.  Any boot wearing field duty I would engage in would need at least half of the BBDU anyway.  May as well get the whole thing.

[Hawk200]

BBDU

Agreed.  There is no reason for a senior member to have camouflage anything.

We should never adopt another camoflage uniform and let the BDU die out through attrition & supply issues.

In California I can't think of any reason to even have Woodland BDU's.  I have a bunch as I'm retired Army, but I can't even justify changing the insignia on them.  There is no activity for which they would be the best choice.  Any boot wearing field duty I would engage in would need at least half of the BBDU anyway.  May as well get the whole thing.

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

[HGjunkie]

BBDU

Agreed.  There is no reason for a senior member to have camouflage anything.

We should never adopt another camoflage uniform and let the BDU die out through attrition & supply issues.

In California I can't think of any reason to even have Woodland BDU's.  I have a bunch as I'm retired Army, but I can't even justify changing the insignia on them.  There is no activity for which they would be the best choice.  Any boot wearing field duty I would engage in would need at least half of the BBDU anyway.  May as well get the whole thing.

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

yeah, seriously.

[Custer]

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

Half of what?  Camouflage uniforms are for hiding.  CAP has no reason to hide.  When in the field, CAP needs to be MORE visible, not less.  Why do you want to wear an ABU so much?

[Hawk200]

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

Half of what?  Camouflage uniforms are for hiding.  CAP has no reason to hide.  When in the field, CAP needs to be MORE visible, not less.  Why do you want to wear an ABU so much?

Really got nothing to do with the ABU. I'll let you try again. Address the issue instead of sidestepping it.

[HGjunkie]

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

Half of what?  Camouflage uniforms are for hiding.  CAP has no reason to hide.  When in the field, CAP needs to be MORE visible, not less.  Why do you want to wear an ABU so much?

So we are more in line with the AF and if you think about it, the ABU would be MORE visible in the woods due to it's light colors. It's called common sense.

[Hawk200]

So we are more in line with the AF and if you think about it, the ABU would be MORE visible in the woods due to it's light colors. It's called common sense.

Dude, don't confuse the issue. The colors really have nothing to do with it, and they're not important anyway.

[lordmonar]

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

Half of what?  Camouflage uniforms are for hiding.  CAP has no reason to hide.  When in the field, CAP needs to be MORE visible, not less.  Why do you want to wear an ABU so much?

Really got nothing to do with the ABU. I'll let you try again. Address the issue instead of sidestepping it.

How many times do we hear "another uniform change"....by going BBDU we never ever have to change because USAF decides that Multi Cams are better then ABUs.

Second issue....BBDU do not require USAF approval...so the fat and fuzzies are not an image issue.

Third Issue...."and one uniform to bind them and in the dark command them".  Lets' present a united front....it has been too long since we have done that.

BBDU...all the way.

[RiverAux]

How many times do we hear "another uniform change"....by going BBDU we never ever have to change because USAF decides that Multi Cams are better then ABUs.

Uh, just because it is a corporate uniform, doesn't mean that it won't change -- witness the rise and fall of the TPU.  If anything, an all corporate uniform could lead to possibly more uniform changes over time since they would be entirely at the whim of the CAP leadership and not really subject to being held back by the AF. 

[Hawk200]

Another half standard advocate. What is it with you guys?

Half of what?  Camouflage uniforms are for hiding.  CAP has no reason to hide.  When in the field, CAP needs to be MORE visible, not less.  Why do you want to wear an ABU so much?

Really got nothing to do with the ABU. I'll let you try again. Address the issue instead of sidestepping it.

How many times do we hear "another uniform change"....by going BBDU we never ever have to change because USAF decides that Multi Cams are better then ABUs.

Second issue....BBDU do not require USAF approval...so the fat and fuzzies are not an image issue.

Third Issue...."and one uniform to bind them and in the dark command them".  Lets' present a united front....it has been too long since we have done that.

BBDU...all the way.

Guess I'm gonna have to spell it out. Why only seniors in corporate? Why should half of the membership classes wear different from the other half? Allegedly, uniformity is desired, but this practice won't present that.

It will create an organization that looks like two different ones. We've already got that schizophrenia in one aspect, why create another one?

Joining an organization and thinking one should be accomodated is just as bad as the kid mentioned in the other thread that shouldn't have to get a haircut. The principle is the same. The standards are there, and if people don't like it they shouldn't join. It's a privilege, but it's also still voluntary. Trying to establish your own terms doesn't show that you believe in the organization. And anyone trying to mold it to themselves doesn't have the organization's best interests in mind.

Anyone trying to change CAP for themselves can save themselves a lot of time and money by not renewing or joining in the first place.

[Earhart1971]

Why have Camo or multicam? It's stupid for CAP to wear CAMO. Woodlands Camo is now a 30 year old uniform. Solid Tan BDUs reflect the heat somewhat in Florida.

CAP distinctive BDUs and forget trying to look like the current Air Force Fashion.

[RADIOMAN015]

ABU = Airman Battle Uniform  ...  Someone tell me did we pickup a new combat mission that requires us NOT to be seen  :angel:

Those ABU's look worse than even the BDU's.

Time to roll out the Blue Flight Suits/BDU's etc with the bright red background and white lettering for name, Civil Air Patrol, and rank.

We need ALL our uniforms to be red, white, & blue :clap:

RM

[HGjunkie]

ABU = Airman Battle Uniform  ...  Someone tell me did we pickup a new combat mission that requires us NOT to be seen  :angel:

Those ABU's look worse than even the BDU's.

Time to roll out the Blue Flight Suits/BDU's etc with the bright red background and white lettering for name, Civil Air Patrol, and rank.

We need ALL our uniforms to be red, white, & blue :clap:

RM

How 'bout NO! If it's good enough for the AF, then it's good enough for us. 

[indygreg]

Why have Camo or multicam? It's stupid for CAP to wear CAMO. Woodlands Camo is now a 30 year old uniform. Solid Tan BDUs reflect the heat somewhat in Florida.

CAP distinctive BDUs and forget trying to look like the current Air Force Fashion.

You know, that might not look bad.

[Hawk200]

Those ABU's look worse than even the BDU's.

Amusing statement considering that the ABU is basically a modified BDU. Calf pockets, a pen pocket on the sleeve, and a cellphone pocket inside one of the cargos. Material is heavier to keep it looking "nice" even though it'll make you sweat. It's not seriously different.

[HGjunkie]

Those ABU's look worse than even the BDU's.

Amusing statement considering that the ABU is basically a modified BDU. Calf pockets, a pen pocket on the sleeve, and a cellphone pocket inside one of the cargos. Material is heavier to keep it looking "nice" even though it'll make you sweat. It's not seriously different.

Useful for ES purposes, and the Cell pocket could come in real handy for safekeeping. I like the pen pockets 'cause it's easier to access a pen that way.

[tsrup]

ABU = Airman Battle Uniform  ...  Someone tell me did we pickup a new combat mission that requires us NOT to be seen 

And BDU= Battle Dress Uniform

your point?

[HGjunkie]

Burn

[JoeTomasone]

We wear the Air Force uniform because we are the Air Force Auxiliary.   We are on the Air Force Team.   Simple as that.

While I will concede the point that we do not need to be camouflaged, I would point out that soldiers working their day jobs on a CONUS installation certainly don't need to be either; would you also advocate that they all go to BBDUs as well (unless deployed)?   Good luck with that.

[DakRadz]

We wear the Air Force uniform because we are the Air Force Auxiliary.   We are on the Air Force Team.   Simple as that.

While I will concede the point that we do not need to be camouflaged, I would point out that soldiers working their day jobs on a CONUS installation certainly don't need to be either; would you also advocate that they all go to BBDUs as well (unless deployed)?   Good luck with that.

Nice point, sir. I especially agree with the part about us being on the AF team- the very definition of uniform I won't put on here, because that's too insulting. But uniformity is the point of uniforms- all one team, all one uni. SMs who choose to wear/must wear BBDUs- I don't think there's any problem with this, considering the vast array of reasons SM might need to wear these. i.e. Cadets do PT, not SM. But for the most part we should have a *uni*form*

[wuzafuzz]

ABU's? I could care less.  When I spend money it will be for BBDU's.  Until then I'll keep wearing the BDU's I got for free.

Whatever color my field uniform is, I wish it would include a shirt I can tuck in!  That would be nice for wearing things on a regular belt, without donning a backpack, radio harness contraption, or other warrior gear. 

[cap235629]

ABU's? I could care less.  When I spend money it will be for BBDU's.  Until then I'll keep wearing the BDU's I got for free.

Whatever color my field uniform is, I wish it would include a shirt I can tuck in!  That would be nice for wearing things on a regular belt, without donning a backpack, radio harness contraption, or other warrior gear.

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The argument about blending in and being camouflaged really doesn't matter when it comes to the ABU, it doesn't blend in with anything at all.

[davidsinn]

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

[tsrup]

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to have more surplus options available.


edit: linky: http://cgi.ebay.com/Air-Force-GORETEX-Sage-Green-ABU-Combat-Boots-8W-MINT-/280518403519?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Men_s_Shoes&hash=item41503325bf#ht_1487wt_997

[HGjunkie]

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to be more surplus options available.

Beat me to it Tsrup!
Anyways; http://tinyurl.com/23cpfgb

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I would be quite good with tan BDU's for summer and BBDU's for winter.

But jack the ultramarine stuff and go to dark blue.

[davidsinn]

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to have more surplus options available.


edit: linky: http://cgi.ebay.com/Air-Force-GORETEX-Sage-Green-ABU-Combat-Boots-8W-MINT-/280518403519?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Men_s_Shoes&hash=item41503325bf#ht_1487wt_997

That's one pair of used boots. Not a very good option. I wear $150 black boots. But that's my choice. My cadets wear $40 black boots from walmart or boots we managed to get out of DRMO via wing.

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to be more surplus options available.

Beat me to it Tsrup!
Anyways; http://tinyurl.com/23cpfgb

Real cute. Using the almighty google I didn't find a single pair under $100 so the problem still exists.

[HGjunkie]

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to have more surplus options available.


edit: linky: http://cgi.ebay.com/Air-Force-GORETEX-Sage-Green-ABU-Combat-Boots-8W-MINT-/280518403519?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Men_s_Shoes&hash=item41503325bf#ht_1487wt_997

That's one pair of used boots. Not a very good option. I wear $150 black boots. But that's my choice. My cadets wear $40 black boots from walmart or boots we managed to get out of DRMO via wing.

My problem with the ABU is this:


That's a $150 boot. That's stupid. My cadets can't afford that. Most cadets couldn't.

I've found some as low as 35 dollars.  It's all about where you look.   I could/can post a picture of a 200 dollar black leather boot.


Not to mention that by the time we get (if we get) ABUs there are going to be more surplus options available.

Beat me to it Tsrup!
Anyways; http://tinyurl.com/23cpfgb

Real cute. Using the almighty google I didn't find a single pair under $100 so the problem still exists.

How many pages did you go through? It was just a suggestion.

[tsrup]

Fact of the matter is that the boots price is moot.

If you are on a budget, there are Sage green boots out there (and there will be more as the BDU sundown comes to a close, which will happen long before we'd get ABUs anyways) that are under 50 dollars, and there are some that are more expensive.  Just like the black boots. 

Not to mention that it wont be too long before DRMO is full of Sage Green boots instead of black ones. 

I can bet that the ones for sale on ebay are in a whole heck of a lot better shape than my first pair of boots in CAP.

Like with most things in CAP, start out with the hand-me-downs and the used stuff, and as a cadet becomes more seriously involved they end up purchasing uniform stuff on their own anyways.

Also, we could wear Desert Tan boots instead of the sage green boots.  They are currently authorized for AD members (until Nov 2011) for wear with the ABU, so it's not too far fetched of an Idea. 

You can find them dirt cheap and they would add another level of distinctiveness. 

Posts merged - MIKE

[PHall]

We could just stay with the black boots if and when we transition to the ABU.
It would definitely help distinguish us from the Air Force.

Of course this makes way too much sense, so it will never happen.

[MIKE]

^ How much longer do you think AAFES will be carrying black boots now that they have sage green ones for the mechs?  If it's located on a strictly Air Force installation they may not even have tan ones after the phase out... And your average CAPer doesn't have access to NEX or CGEX either which might have black boots.

So you buy your ABU from AAFES MCSS, even your tapes 'cause its cheaper than Vanguard... but have to get your "distinctive" black boots somewhere else?

[a2capt]

They hardly have them at March ARB as it is. Sometimes I see 1 option, other times I see none.

[PHall]

They hardly have them at March ARB as it is. Sometimes I see 1 option, other times I see none.

The only black boots still at March ARB are the $200 Matterhorns that nobody is going to buy.

[Senior]

You can find issue sage green boots on ebay right now.  I thought of
buying a pair to have when/if we go to the new AF uniform.  I have seen a nice looking black boot at Wally World for 39.99.

I read in a gun magazine that the Army is going to adopt multicam
for forces in Afghanistan soon.  I think we should adopt the BBDU
for cadets and seniors for the field uniform.   Any mulitcam uniform I
have seen is outrageously expensive.  

[tsrup]

You can find issue sage green boots on ebay right now.  I thought of
buying a pair to have when/if we go to the new AF uniform.  I have seen a nice looking black boot at Wally World for 39.99.

I read in a gun magazine that the Army is going to adopt multicam
for forces in Afghanistan soon.  I think we should adopt the BBDU
for cadets and seniors for the field uniform.   Any mulitcam uniform I
have seen is outrageously expensive.

I'd be willing to bet that multicam is going to be treated the same way the DCU's were.  They will be issued and be appropriate for wear in theater, and thats about it.

[Krapenhoeffer]

I do believe that in the RealAirForce^TM that the sage green boots are authorized with BDUs until the phase out. I foresee CAP authorizing that as well, with or without the ABU.

[DC]

You can find issue sage green boots on ebay right now.  I thought of
buying a pair to have when/if we go to the new AF uniform.  I have seen a nice looking black boot at Wally World for 39.99.

I read in a gun magazine that the Army is going to adopt multicam
for forces in Afghanistan soon.  I think we should adopt the BBDU
for cadets and seniors for the field uniform.   Any mulitcam uniform I
have seen is outrageously expensive.

If production is ramped up for the military the price should drop substantially. Especially if it is adopted by the entire DOD as opposed to one branch.

If CAP drops black boots I honestly hope they switch to tan. I'm all for staying as close to the Air Force as possible, but I don't know of any of my cadets that can afford to spend upwards of $100 on boots alone.

Plus, I already have a pair of tan ones!  :angel:

[pbcheez]

I reccomend keeping the BDU's. The patches make the uniform look not only better but gives you and your unit some individuality from sister units.

[RVT]

I recommend keeping the BDU's. The patches make the uniform look not only better but gives you and your unit some individuality from sister units.

After looking at a picture (I have never seen this uniform) it looks like the style is the same as the existing BDU and the only difference is the camo pattern.  Since the camo pattern is meaningless in CAP I can take it or leave it as long as we use the same black boots worn with the BDU & BBDU .

[DC]

^Out of curiosity, why do you want to retain the boots that are becoming increasingly hard to find?

[cap235629]

^Out of curiosity, why do you want to retain the boots that are becoming increasingly hard to find?

Black boots are in no way hard to find. I wear Bates boots that I bought at Academy Sports for $59.00. They even have a decent pair for $30.00. Black boots will always be available because the majority of Police Departments in the US wear them.

[CadetProgramGuy]

You know if Mama blue is looking for a uniform that is CAP distinct, ABU's with Black boots would be it.

Don't think its gonna happen, but it is a thought.

[Custer]

You know if Mama blue is looking for a uniform that is CAP distinct, ABU's with Black boots would be it. Don't think its gonna happen, but it is a thought.

Actually, that most likely IS what will happen.  Just from the sake of economy I doubt we will be made to buy a special set of boots for just that one uniform that can't also be worn with BBDU, flight suits or such.

[capsar67]

 I would love to switch to ABUS!

[RVT]

I would love to switch to ABUS!

Only if I can still wear my BDU field jacket with it.  I don't even know what the ABU field jacket looks like - or even if there is one.  It looks like though the uniform itself is similar to the BDU, the cold weather gear for that uniform is completely different.

[PHall]

I would love to switch to ABUS!

Only if I can still wear my BDU field jacket with it.  I don't even know what the ABU field jacket looks like - or even if there is one.  It looks like though the uniform itself is similar to the BDU, the cold weather gear for that uniform is completely different.

There is no ABU Field Jacket. The ABU pattern Gore-Tex parka that costs $180 is it's replacement.

[RVT]

There is no ABU Field Jacket. The ABU pattern Gore-Tex parka that costs $180 is it's replacement.

That and the expensive special boots.  It could be a simple matter of most of us can't afford this stuff.

[DakRadz]

You know if Mama blue is looking for a uniform that is CAP distinct, ABU's with Black boots would be it. Don't think its gonna happen, but it is a thought.

Actually, that most likely IS what will happen.  Just from the sake of economy I doubt we will be made to buy a special set of boots for just that one uniform that can't also be worn with BBDU, flight suits or such.

If the above were to happen, it would be fine. Plus, considering the Army still mixes and matches ACU with BDU, I'm sure the AF will allow those of us who are supplying our own uniform to follow suit with BDU/ABU concerning expensive items.

If so, let's go right on to ABUs.

[PHall]

You know if Mama blue is looking for a uniform that is CAP distinct, ABU's with Black boots would be it. Don't think its gonna happen, but it is a thought.

Actually, that most likely IS what will happen.  Just from the sake of economy I doubt we will be made to buy a special set of boots for just that one uniform that can't also be worn with BBDU, flight suits or such.

If the above were to happen, it would be fine. Plus, considering the Army still mixes and matches ACU with BDU, I'm sure the AF will allow those of us who are supplying our own uniform to follow suit with BDU/ABU concerning expensive items.

If so, let's go right on to ABUs.

Better go update your Army info, you wear anything BDU and you will incur the immediate wrath of the First Sergeant.
The wear out date for BDU's in the Army was over two years ago.

[NCRblues]

I highly HIGHLY doubt the AF is going to allow cap to mix and match ABU/BDU at all...

[SarDragon]

I highly HIGHLY doubt the AF is going to allow cap to mix and match ABU/BDU at all...

Well, of course not. A cap is either ABU, or BDU. I've never seen one that is a mix of both. 

[Stonewall]

ABUs are thick, hot and serve little function when it comes to utility.

Vote here if you want this:





:angel:

[DogCollar]

I like Stonewalls' uniform and voted for it in '07.  However, if the choice is between ABU's and BDU's...I would rather stick with the BDU's until the supply runs dry.  Mainly due to cost of changeover, and the fact that if no one in the RM is utilizing BDU's as a uniform, then why can't it become a CAP distinctive uniform for everyone?

[davidsinn]

I like Stonewalls' uniform and voted for it in '07.  However, if the choice is between ABU's and BDU's...I would rather stick with the BDU's until the supply runs dry.  Mainly due to cost of changeover, and the fact that if no one in the RM is utilizing BDU's as a uniform, then why can't it become a CAP distinctive uniform for everyone?

I don't think BDUs will ever run dry. They are too popular.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Worldwide it seems on the decline. My home country used to use the BDU with the material for rank slides (like Poland and about half of europe).

Now they have this: http://forum.mnairsoft.org/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=27576&start=0

And I know from the Russia-Georgian war had pics of Georgians in the MarPat.


On a side not about Latvian armed forces:

There are 1284 officers, 1945 non-commissioned officers and 1817 privates or privates first class serving in the NAF.

1) That's their whole military, not counting 10K Guardsmen.
2) That's a whole lot of chiefs...and few indians.

[DakRadz]

So one aircraft carrier has more personnel than an entire military.... o.O


Wow. Really puts it in perspective

[notaNCO forever]

FYI the their is another jacket besides the gore Tex one for ABUs it's 70 dollars if I remember correctly and the old liners from the field jackets fit in them. They are what we got issued at BMT. My personal opinion is that we stay with BDUs atleast untill we know for sure thatthe AF is or isn't switching to multicam. Personally I'm not a big fan of ABUs and I prefer BDUs especially in the summer heat.

[SamMuller]

Personally, I love the look of the ABU's but I love the BDU's also. So I would be fine with either one. But it wont be for a while until we switch to ABU's.

[RVT]

Personally, I love the look of the ABU's but I love the BDU's also. So I would be fine with either one. But it wont be for a while until we switch to ABU's.

Another thing to consider is it would not be an overnight switch - for an extended period of time both would have to be authorized and we would have yet another uniform.

[Mustang]

No--unless Big Blue relents and allows *all* members to wear them--fatties/fuzzies included. Given the AF's preoccupation with 32" waists, etc, I don't see this happening, frankly.

[Patterson]

^ haha....yet MCSS has blue pants in size 46.  And from the look of it had a lot. 

I could care less about the uniform, more about footwear.  It is difficult to find black boots that are not previously worn or from an Asian factory.  Perhaps letting us wear whatever Boot is authorized for the AF would be good.  Then we can buy through AAFES, and major manufacturers.  New Black Boots are getting more expensive, purchased through the three major manufacturers. 

[Mustang]

^ haha....yet MCSS has blue pants in size 46.  And from the look of it had a lot. 

Given that a [mens] waist size over 39" triggers an automatic failure on the new AF physical fitness test, I think we'll start to see fewer and fewer of these "fringe" sizes in MCSSs and the DLA/DSCP pipeline in general.

[Hawk200]

^ haha....yet MCSS has blue pants in size 46.  And from the look of it had a lot. 

I could care less about the uniform, more about footwear.  It is difficult to find black boots that are not previously worn or from an Asian factory.  Perhaps letting us wear whatever Boot is authorized for the AF would be good.  Then we can buy through AAFES, and major manufacturers.  New Black Boots are getting more expensive, purchased through the three major manufacturers.

Not sure which three major manufacturers you refer to, but why are you sticking with those? There are boots made by all kinds of companies that are in compliance. It does not have to be something that's only available from AAFES.

[SarDragon]

From 39-1: Combat Boots - Black, with or without safety toe; must have a plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without perforated seam; zipper or elastic inserts are optional; no designs. Highly polished, high gloss, or  patent leather.

Looks pretty liberal to me. I wear a pair left over from my Navy days, and another pair of Carolina Tacticals, depending on the mission.

[FARRIER]

From 39-1: Combat Boots - Black, with or without safety toe; must have a plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without perforated seam; zipper or elastic inserts are optional; no designs. Highly polished, high gloss, or  patent leather.

Looks pretty liberal to me. I wear a pair left over from my Navy days, and another pair of Carolina Tacticals, depending on the mission.

Wear a size 14 boot.

[SarDragon]

Huh? Applicability to the thread? 

[FARRIER]

Huh? Applicability to the thread? 

Availability of boots decrease with the very large sizes

From Patterson
"New Black Boots are getting more expensive, purchased through the three major manufacturers."

[SarDragon]

I understand the size related expense, but am still not catching on to how that related to my post that indicated the looseness in the rules defining acceptable boots. Most of the brands I've seen mentioned in boot threads come that big. Styles differ some, but all seem to comply with the reg.