CAP vs. Coast Guard Aux

[Eclipse]

So now it's an itemization contest?

The CGAux has a single mission - augmentation and support of the parent service.

"The overarching mission of the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary is to contribute to the safety and security of our citizens, ports, waterways and coastal regions."

That allows for a pretty broad list of activities, but is pretty straightforward at the recruiting level.

[RiverAux]

No, just pointing out that the Aux has multiple missions, each of which includes multiple sub-missions that alone would be a significant program. 

And I think I have a little better idea of Auxiliary missions than you and they are much broader than the single sentence you gave.  I'm sure it was taken from an Auxiliary source, but it is nowhere near the whole story.

But, lets keep it simple and stick with the federal law establishing the Auxiliary:

The purpose of the Auxiliary is to assist the Coast Guard as authorized by the Commandant, in performing any Coast Guard function, power, duty, role, mission, or operation authorized by law.

In other words, our purpose is to do whathever the heck the Commandant wants us to do and he wants us doing dozens of different missions.  In that way, we're much like the Coast Guard itself -- a crazy hodgepodge of missions that don't always fit together very well.

Our current highest priority is to promote recreational boating safety and there are many different missions we do to fullfil that task.  Next, is to provide trained personnel to augment the Coast Guard in safety and security missions (again, several dozen different missions fall into that category).  The next mission is supporting the CG in other various operational, administrative, and logistical tasks.

In other words, the Auxiliary is an incredibly more complicated organization due to the multitude of roles we take on.

Whereas CAP can pretty be easily defined in two sentences, one for cadet programs and one for ES (which you can split out into a few different missions, but not really all that many).  You can throw AE in there if you want, but everyone knows that it isn't really seen as a primary mission of CAP these days no matter what the regs say. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

River-

I think you misinterpreted Eclipse's post.

He only stated narrow, he did not say few or lesser. From what you also posted I agree with him. Even if they are more numerous than CAP's missions, they are narrower than CAP. All are focused on USCG augmentation.

You describe several mission types on this, and several mission types on that. If there were more USCG, they would do this and that. There are not, thus, that is USCG augmentation.

Flyer

[Shuman 14]

1. Cooking and other mess duty (servers, KPs, etc.)

Aren't those jobs normally done by either civilian contractors, or family members of servicemen?

2. Radio watchstanding

Where?

3. manning an information desk/booth

Where and what for?

4. general clerical support to bases and stations

Doesn't the Air Force have an entire career field for this? And can CAP provide this service steadily, everyday?

5. Academy pre-screening of applicants

What kind of pre-screening?

6. tour guides of bases and stations during open houses

Again, where and what for?

JayT,

I will try to answer your questions the best that I can, based on these are things I've done, or seen done, in the USCGAux in direct support of the USCG.

1. Maybe in the USAF and at major bases in the USCG, but at most Stations and on board a Cutter, no. This is one of the newer missions of the USCGAux and even has a qualification called AuxChef. I knew an AuxChef that took two weeks of vacation to serve on board a cutter  cooking three meals a day.

2. Every USCG Station and Airstation has a radio watch, numerous Auxies qualify and man these posts on a day to day basis. I "assume" USAF bases have similar radio watches going on.

3. Every USCG Station I've ever been to has a desk inside the the front door so when the public walks in there is someone there to greet them and direct them or assist them. Auxies (myself included) can do this duty regularly, it frees up USCG personnel for more important missions at the station.  Have you never seen a information booth on an USAF base?

4. I'm sure it does, the USCG does, they're called Yeoman.  Auxies fill in as needed and as they are available. Not always everyday but sometimes to cover when someone goes on leave or there is a flood of paperwork. An extra clerk/typist one day a week can be a godsend to an overworked Yeoman.

5. Not a mission I've done, but the way I understanding it working is the Auxie has to complete the USCG's recruiter school and then they are like any other recruiter in that can assist at a recruiting office or assist the USCGA by meeting with prospective applicants to interview them, explain to them the Congressional appointment process and assist with the application paperwork and to field questions as needed. Better to send a Auxie who is local than an Officer from New London, cheaper too.

6.  I would have thought this was explanatory.  In the USCG, most stations are near or in a civilian harbor (ie boat dock). During the summer months their are fairs and holiday celebrations where the Station is open to the public for tours, Auxies come in to support these missions so the actual USCG can conduct their normal duties and the USCGAux can walk the civilians around and keep them out of trouble. Also, when cutters come into port, they sometimes allow tours of the vessel, normally local Auxies come out to assist with these. I've done this mission many times when USCG cutters come into Chicago and dock at Navy Pier. They always give tours and Auxies conduct them so the crew can enjoy shoreleave. I assume the USAF has open houses on their bases and airshows at civilian airfields? CAP members could augment base personnel in giving these tours.

Now I completely admit that I don't know how the CAP/USAF interactions normally work but the above missions seem to me to be something CAP could do for the USAF like the USCGAux does for the USCG.

[Shuman 14]

I agree with JayT.

The tasks mentioned by shuman14 in some states are covered by the State Military Reserve or the State Guard (Basically the Auxilliary of the National Guard in some states). CAP has three missions, CP, ES and AE. Cooking and mess duty is not what we sign up for and it does happen at some of our activities but I am not doing it at Nellis AFB.

Correct, but not every State has a SDF, and not every SDF has an Air Component Command; but I'm pretty sure EVERY State has CAP assets in it.

[bosshawk]

I won't attempt to address each of Maj Clune's items, but I will comment on one: number 5.  The AF Academy, West Point and the Naval Academy have well-organized forces of volunteers(usually either reserve officers or retired officers) whose sole function in their volunteer roles is to address issues with applying for and/or being accepted at a service academy.  I happen to be one of those for West Point and have been performing in that role off and on since 1976.  I only have a vague knowledge of how the Coast Guard Academy handles their admissions process, so I can't address that.  I have found that the recruiters are very little help in doing any pre-screening and Active Duty folks are generally too busy to even be interested.

Flame away, as is the CAPtalk method.

[Shuman 14]

I have found that the recruiters are very little help in doing any pre-screening and Active Duty folks are generally too busy to even be interested.

So Sir are you saying this is a niche mission that the CAP could take over and assist the USAF with?

[Spaceman3750]

I have found that the recruiters are very little help in doing any pre-screening and Active Duty folks are generally too busy to even be interested.

So Sir are you saying this is a niche mission that the CAP could take over and assist the USAF with?

At least in my area, we barely have enough people to cover our existing tasking without adding this on top.

[Eclipse]

At least in my area, we barely have enough people to cover our existing tasking without adding this on top.

An excellent point - and before anyone waves the "recruiting flag", that's not how it works - you don't extend your mission to try and grab new guys
when you're short handed on the real jobs, you kit-up on people to accomplish the actual mission and then and only then, do you consider
extending the mission.

Just as we didn't want or need members who were only joining to staff VSAF, we don't need people who just want to augment the USAF and not do
actual CAP work.  Last I checked, the USAF was pretty good at recruiting and hiring people without our help.

There also isn't, to my knowledge, any real analog in the USAF to "watch stations", certainly not anywhere near my AOR, where there aren't even USAF many bases anymore.
Also my state, as more then 1/2 the others, does not have an SDF.

[bosshawk]

No, Maj. Clune, I am not suggesting that CAP help in prescreening of candidates for the AF Academy.  In fact, I would think that the AFA would recall in horror at the very suggestion that they rely on CAP for such a job.

What I stated was that the AFA has a group of volunteers, mostly officers in either the Guard, Reserves or Active Duty who serve as liasion officers for the Academy and they do a certain amount of prescreening of candidates.  I do the same thing for West Point: most of what I do is provide info to candidates as to the requirements for admission, how to wade through the extremely large group of forms and take the medical and physical fitness exams.  I also do personal interviews on a limited number of candidates.  Over the years, I have had a modicum of success: I have had around 275 young people from my area go to West Point(that is in two states over more than 25 years).  God forbid that CAP ever got involved.

[jeders]

I will try to answer your questions the best that I can, based on these are things I've done, or seen done, in the USCGAux in direct support of the USCG.

There's your first mistake. This isn't the CG or CG Aux, we are CAP and we work for the Air Force. Just as the names imply, we work in totally different areas.

1. Maybe in the USAF and at major bases in the USCG, but at most Stations and on board a Cutter, no. This is one of the newer missions of the USCGAux and even has a qualification called AuxChef. I knew an AuxChef that took two weeks of vacation to serve on board a cutter  cooking three meals a day.

When's the last time you saw an Air Force cutter? At AF bases they have civilian contractors do all of the cooking. These contractors have long term contracts (hence the name contractor) and CAP isn't going to get in on that game, period.

2. Every USCG Station and Airstation has a radio watch, numerous Auxies qualify and man these posts on a day to day basis. I "assume" USAF bases have similar radio watches going on.

I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that these radio watches are listening for boaters in distress. The only people actively listening to a radio for airmen in distress are going to be the guys in the control tower. Trust me, we do not want to send untrained volunteers to augment the control towers.

3. Every USCG Station I've ever been to has a desk inside the the front door so when the public walks in there is someone there to greet them and direct them or assist them. Auxies (myself included) can do this duty regularly, it frees up USCG personnel for more important missions at the station.  Have you never seen a information booth on an USAF base?

Nope. The AF doesn't really like the general public coming around secure areas. And when they do have limited functions for the public, it gets coordinated with AF Public Affairs, which is all a part of there job. There are, however, public museums usually right outside the gates but a part of the base. This is the one area where we may be able to help in this regard. However, since these are already staffed in large part by volunteers, I don't see much traction there.

4. I'm sure it does, the USCG does, they're called Yeoman.  Auxies fill in as needed and as they are available. Not always everyday but sometimes to cover when someone goes on leave or there is a flood of paperwork. An extra clerk/typist one day a week can be a godsend to an overworked Yeoman.

Again, the AF has an entire career field plus civilian contractors for just this. They already have people to cover when there is a flood of paperwork or someone gets sick or takes leave.

5. Not a mission I've done, but the way I understanding it working is the Auxie has to complete the USCG's recruiter school and then they are like any other recruiter in that can assist at a recruiting office or assist the USCGA by meeting with prospective applicants to interview them, explain to them the Congressional appointment process and assist with the application paperwork and to field questions as needed. Better to send a Auxie who is local than an Officer from New London, cheaper too.

As bosshawk already explained, this is not an area where we are wanted or needed.

6.  I would have thought this was explanatory.  In the USCG, most stations are near or in a civilian harbor (ie boat dock).

Most AF bases aren't.

During the summer months their are fairs and holiday celebrations where the Station is open to the public for tours, Auxies come in to support these missions so the actual USCG can conduct their normal duties and the USCGAux can walk the civilians around and keep them out of trouble. Also, when cutters come into port, they sometimes allow tours of the vessel, normally local Auxies come out to assist with these. I've done this mission many times when USCG cutters come into Chicago and dock at Navy Pier. They always give tours and Auxies conduct them so the crew can enjoy shoreleave. I assume the USAF has open houses on their bases and airshows at civilian airfields? CAP members could augment base personnel in giving these tours.

Yes, some bases have open houses in conjunction with air shows. Usually when there is a unit nearby, they are already helping out in one way or another. But people don't just go around the base willy-nilly looking at all the cool toys. They go to the airshow area and look at the toys that are brought out, and the people that bring them out do all the explaining, no need for us.

Now I completely admit that I don't know how the CAP/USAF interactions normally work but the above missions seem to me to be something CAP could do for the USAF like the USCGAux does for the USCG.

The AF, not just CAP-USAF, does things very differently than the CG, and we need to stop comparing apples and bowling balls.

[Luis R. Ramos]

You - OP - state in number 6 that we could provide help during shows and fairs.

Until you can get everyone in CAP involved to provide correct basic information about aircraft - or ask their AF crew - the results of this will be mixed at least. I was at a static display of aircraft at LaGuardia Airport in NYC. There were two cadets one at the entrance the other inside a KC-135. I asked one at the door "which acft is this?" He said "A KC-130." I quickly corrected that. There was a flight engineer besides him. This cadet never bothered to ask the expert to his side.

I asked the cadet inside the same question. He answered a "KC-10." An Air National Guardsman besides him, who overheard the answer,looks at me and smiles. Then walks away. I could read his mind: "This cadet is your guy. Fix that mistake!"

Both cadets had several years in the program. They were not inexperienced. So where did the miscommunication came? Both alleged another senior member told them that info!

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Cadet are awesome - I've had a couple at encampment arguing about air-power inventory and capabilities with fighter pilots.  It can be quite entertaining.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Oh, I know that some can argue - in an intelligent manner, even quoting facts and figures - with Air Force personnel successfully. I only wish it would happen all the time.

Because then we have some, like Mr Rainey here, that will argue and argue not accepting the facts...

Flyer

[bflynn]

Everyone laments....."We want more involvement with the USAF".....but they very seldom have any concrete ideas of what that involvement is.

What do you want from the USAF.....and what do you want to do for the USAF?

We can go ahead an respond with pipedreams if you want.....let's go whole hog here.

I don't think I heard an answer to this - did I miss it?

I have very few ideas, I'd be looking for what the Air Force would like us to do.  That's kind of my point, we don't integrate well with the Air Force. 

I can see us stressing education in a kind of strategic way.  The more people that know about flying and believe in flying, the better the situation for the Air Force.  Of everything, this is what we can do the most for the Air Force, although we're hadicapped by not allowing SMs to take primary flight training

We can...act as targets for Air Force exercises?

I don't think out training cadets is for the Air Force.  There's the AFRCC, but we've all seen a huge downturn in SAR activity since the cessation of monitoring for 121.5 ELTs, so it isn't a big part of what we do anyway.

Did I miss something?

[Eclipse]

That's kind of my point, we don't integrate well with the Air Force. 

Which is fine, since it isn't one of our mission mandates.

We can...act as targets for Air Force exercises?

We are doing this today.

There's the AFRCC, but we've all seen a huge downturn in SAR activity since the cessation of monitoring for 121.5 ELTs, so it isn't a big part of what we do anyway.

Maybe in your AOR - we had two simultaneous missions in one day yesterday.

My wing's ELT mission rate is about the same as it's always been - one or two missions a month, and our DR support is way up.

[Ned]

I have very few ideas, I'd be looking for what the Air Force would like us to do.

As it turns out, the BoG is meeting with NORTHCOM officials soon to ask this very question.

I'll let you know what is on their "wish list" and we can all talk about how we might meet it.



(And this being CAPTalk, we can then talk about the necessary uniform modifications.    )

[Storm Chaser]

As others have said, this is a matter of perspective. CAP and the USGC Aux have different missions and roles and that can also affect the perception of "closeness" between each and their parent service.

I, for one, feel very close to the Air Force. My unit is in an Air Force base and we use some of their facilities (e.g. gym, flight line, etc.). They provide us with a decent building, which have the class room and offices we need to conduct training and business. It also makes for a good mission base. In return, we provide support through aerial fire patrol over their firing range in a daily basis. We have a good relationship and mutual support. So, as it has been said before, this is a matter of perception.

Maybe not every local unit has day-to-day contact with the Air Force, but that doesn't make our relationship any less than what it is. We have a broader mission, which may explain why not everything we do is with an Air Force airman by or side. But regardless of that, we are the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary 24/7 and not just some of the time.

[Private Investigator]

I, for one, feel very close to the Air Force. My unit is in an Air Force base and we use some of their facilities (e.g. gym, flight line, etc.). They provide us with a decent building, which have the class room and offices we need to conduct training and business. It also makes for a good mission base. In return, we provide support through aerial fire patrol over their firing range in a daily basis. We have a good relationship and mutual support. So, as it has been said before, this is a matter of perception.

You are in a good situation so make the most of it. Some Squadron's only contact with the USAF is the town's recruiter and they meet in the basement of a church.   

[Storm Chaser]

You are in a good situation so make the most of it. Some Squadron's only contact with the USAF is the town's recruiter and they meet in the basement of a church.   

I know that to be true first hand. For many years, a former cadet squadron I used to belong to, both as a cadet and later a senior member, met at a high school and had one class room for our meetings. It wasn't a nice school as many are now a day. It didn't have air conditioning or any other facilities or equipment we could use for meetings or training. We spent most of the time outside in a basketball court, which we use as a parade ground and for things like PT. We didn't even had a track; we ran on the streets, around the school. Our Group HQ met in an ANG facility (not a base, but a radar station), in a rundown building. We didn't have many good facilities or resources either.