CAP vs. Coast Guard Aux

[SpookyDude]

Hi Everyone,

Having been in CAP now for a few years, I'm wondering where we are going as an organization. It seems to me that CAP is still struggling with an identity crisis that the only other Civilian Auxiliary (at least that I know about) does not suffer from.

I'd like to propose a thought for discussion - What would be wrong with CAP foregoing it's "Civil Air Patrol" identity in favor of just being the Air Force Auxiliary and acting accordingly? I mean our Congressional Charter is really only a Public Law, and laws can be changed.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that CAP forget about our roots or the significant history to date, but it seems to me that the biggest hinderance we face, and that makes us disjointed, is that of our dual personality.

What do you think would be the pros and cons of CAP going down this road?

[lordmonar]

Except here on CAPTALK....what identity crisis are you talking about?

[Eclipse]

Except here on CAPTALK....what identity crisis are you talking about?

+1

The average member goes to the average meeting in the same way they have for 30+ years.

[SAREXinNY]

I understand where the OP is coming from.  As someone that has been with CAP less than a year, the organization seems a bit disjointed.  I feel like we are going in 5 different directions at the same time.  I understand the background, and why we are organized the way we are as a 501(c)3, while at the same time we are "sometimes" an auxiliary of the USAF.  But it seems our goals and missions would be better met if we were completely under USAF control (at some level).  As it is, they have their thumb over everything we do.  A closer relationship would only benefit us.  I look at the relationship that the CG and CG Aux. has, and I see an entity that is better organized, with clear operational goals.

[RiverAux]

It would require much more than a name change to radically change the course of CAP.  Personally, I would favor a name change even if nothing else changed, but it isn't on my top 10 list of things that I'd like to see change in CAP. 

[a2capt]

My ID card does not say "sometimes" on it.

[Private Investigator]

Two things; #1 If it is not broken why fix it? #2 It is what it is.

[LGM30GMCC]

Everytime this type of conversation comes up I think the same thing...

We may be the Air Force Aux (All the time...not 'some of the time', it's just a matter of where/how the money is coming to us, much like the ANG) but I have no issue with our name being Civil Air Patrol. Much like there is the 'Air Force Reserve' or 'Air National Guard' but those same units often wear the livery of one of the other MAJCOMs.

Additionally, the CG Aux exists purely to support USCG operations. CAP does not exist solely to support USAF operations (directly at least). Additionally, we are much, MUCH smaller in proportion to our 'parent service.'

The CG Aux is approximately 40% the size of the entire USCG. For CAP to be of equivalence compared to the total USAF we would need to have 300,000 members, or be equivalent to the size of the entire active duty force. Until then, we are more akin to about the 3rd smallest MAJCOM but with less direct USAF control over us.

I'd be fine with a lot more direct USAF command/control/support but I don't see that happening unless we start to grow a bit more and really get VERY serious from the national to the squadron level about being consummate professionals ALL the time. Let's focus on that before we start trying to change our name.

[a2capt]

What he said. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

Didn't someone else start a thread with this same message, like, three months ago?

Some topics are like Frankenstein, they never die!

Flyer

[JoeTomasone]

Well, at least it's not necrothreading...


In my mind, CAP doesn't have an "identity crisis" insofar as direction and purpose.   

What has become more confused in the past 10 years relates to Emergency Services - with a large drop in UDF missions due to the non-monitoring of 121.5 by SARSAT, much of what occupied a lot of members' time has largely gone by the wayside, making some members wonder what our "purpose" and "direction" are. 

The way I see it, we still have a large ES mission - we are just not as often called upon, and it varies from Wing to Wing.    Here in FL, we have a large Disaster Recovery mission, what with the constant threat of tropical systems; in other areas, it's seasonal flooding or wildfires or whatever else.    We are still called for UDF and REDCAPs, and some Wings participate in missing person searches.   Many Wings perform State and Local Gov't missions as well.   These have not changed (significantly) as near as I can tell.

We also have our Cadet Program and Aerospace Education missions - both of which haven't changed focus or direction much, if at all.   Get any Cadet Programs Officer (or, better yet, a Wing Director of Cadet Programs) and ask if he or she perceives a lack of direction, focus, or purpose in that job...

[Rick-DEL]

I do not think we have an identity crisis, we just have a different set of missions than that of the USCGAux. As mentioned by others, in addition to ES we have to cover CP and AE, they don't (unless you count boating safety as another mission). I believe another difference to is that the USCGAux is used to actually augment the USCG on missions. We in CAP cannot do that mostly because of the cadets. USCGAux membership is 17 and up, whereas we are 12 and up. We use kids, for all practical purposes, as our Ground Teams. And that alone cannot be used to augment the USAF.

I could be wrong as I am not fully familiar with the USCGAux and never been a part of them.

Just thinking out loud.

[BillB]

Joe Tomasone...The cadet program has changed drastically over the years. During WW II cadets were used for many things that are no longer allowed. Following the war, cadets could fly as pilots and observers on actual search missions. And, cadets could fill senior member staff positions such as Communications Officer. Many of the qualifications for cadets ended in 1964 with the change in the cadet program. Some programs have stayed the same since the 1940's such as IACE, but most others appeared and disappeared over time. Many changes were due toi USAF downsizing and other causes outside CAP control. But I think the main cause of change in the cadet program started when cadets were thought of as "children" that must be protected at all costs. 

[a2capt]

Along the same premise, comparing CAP to .. the Boy Scouts, Seabees, Young Marines..

Each of them are well intentioned, fine programs. But none of them are the same. Not even to each other, though they are similar, CAP is perhaps "all of these", including the USCGA , rolled into one.

Each has units, troops, detachments, that 'suck' by definition of at least some of the participants, likewise, some that excel, and most that just accomplish the mission.

You can't please everyone. Some won't like it, others won't understand it, it being whatever program they've joined.

[Eclipse]

During WW II cadets were used for many things that are no longer allowed. Following the war, cadets could fly as pilots and observers on actual search missions.

As they do today.

But I think the main cause of change in the cadet program started when cadets were thought of as "children" that must be protected at all costs.

With respect for our great and capable cadets, under 18 that's pretty much the proper stance.

[Eclipse]

We in CAP cannot do that mostly because of the cadets.

Our having cadets is zero factor in augmenting the USAF. In cases where cadets are not appropriate, they just tell us that and we move on.

[Critical AOA]

Joe Tomasone...The cadet program has changed drastically over the years. During WW II cadets were used for many things that are no longer allowed. Following the war, cadets could fly as pilots and observers on actual search missions. And, cadets could fill senior member staff positions such as Communications Officer. Many of the qualifications for cadets ended in 1964 with the change in the cadet program. Some programs have stayed the same since the 1940's such as IACE, but most others appeared and disappeared over time. Many changes were due toi USAF downsizing and other causes outside CAP control. But I think the main cause of change in the cadet program started when cadets were thought of as "children" that must be protected at all costs.

That was probably not an issue in CAP's early days when a cadet had to be 15 - 17 years old and either a junior or senior in HS.  Now they can join at 12 and stay in until 21.  At 12 they are just children.  At 15 they are not an adult yet but in most cases are far more mature than 12.  15 is a more appropriate age to become involved in a program such as CAP and 18 is the right age to join the adults. 

[Shuman 14]

Along the same premise, comparing CAP to .. the Boy Scouts, Seabees, Young Marines..

Each of them are well intentioned, fine programs. But none of them are the same. Not even to each other, though they are similar, CAP is perhaps "all of these", including the USCGA , rolled into one.

Each has units, troops, detachments, that 'suck' by definition of at least some of the participants, likewise, some that excel, and most that just accomplish the mission.

You can't please everyone. Some won't like it, others won't understand it, it being whatever program they've joined.

Just an FYI, USCGA stands for US Coast Guard Academy... if you mean the Auxiliary the proper abbreviation is USCGAux.

[ARandomCadet]

Along the same premise, comparing CAP to .. the Boy Scouts, Seabees, Young Marines..

Each of them are well intentioned, fine programs. But none of them are the same. Not even to each other, though they are similar, CAP is perhaps "all of these", including the USCGA , rolled into one.

Each has units, troops, detachments, that 'suck' by definition of at least some of the participants, likewise, some that excel, and most that just accomplish the mission.

You can't please everyone. Some won't like it, others won't understand it, it being whatever program they've joined.

Just an FYI, USCGA stands for US Coast Guard Academy... if you mean the Auxiliary the proper abbreviation is USCGAux.

Correct, just like if we were abbreviating United States Air Force Auxillary, we would put USAF Aux. not USAFA. USAFA stands for United States Air Force Academy.

[MIKE]

7. A common error is the acronym USCGA when referring to the Auxiliary. USCGA is the acronym
for the Coast Guard Academy. USCGAUX is the correct acronym.

This quote has been brought to you by a real live Auxiliarist/Flotilla Commander.  We now return you to the thread already in progress.