Senior members wearing BDU's - USAF weight standards

Started by xray328, July 03, 2015, 01:37:41 PM

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xray328

Got my answer, thanks.

RiverAux

CAP weight standards are not the same as USAF.   Basically, they are the USAF weight standards from the early 1980s + 10%. 

They are in CAPM39-1

sarmed1

.....and outdated and no longer in line with current USAF policy.......

MK
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

Shuman 14

Are the 1980's standard + 10% easier (or better) than the current USAF standard?

Would switching to the current standard + 10% be a better option if possible?
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

abdsp51

Quote from: shuman14 on July 03, 2015, 05:41:36 PM
Are the 1980's standard + 10% easier (or better) than the current USAF standard?

Would switching to the current standard + 10% be a better option if possible?

There is no H/W for the AF except for entry. 

sarmed1

USAF members are only required to present a professional image while in uniform.  If that means you weigh 250 lbs, as long as you don't look like your uniform is bursting at the seams you are pretty much good to go.

I am sure CAP is hesitant to go to such a standard only because no one is likely to enforce that to harshly.  (though as a USAF reservist, I haven't seen it pushed to hard either)

MK
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

kwe1009

Quote from: sarmed1 on July 03, 2015, 11:14:46 PM
USAF members are only required to present a professional image while in uniform.  If that means you weigh 250 lbs, as long as you don't look like your uniform is bursting at the seams you are pretty much good to go.

I am sure CAP is hesitant to go to such a standard only because no one is likely to enforce that to harshly.  (though as a USAF reservist, I haven't seen it pushed to hard either)

MK

Got to have a 39 inch or smaller waist too no matter how tall you are.  Measuring everyone's waist in CAP would not go over very well I don't think.  That is probably why CAP is using the last real weight standards that the USAF had.

lordmonar

The only standard for wearing the USAF uniform in the USAF.....is to be in the USAF.

You are required to wear the uniform properly....but if you had a 192" waist and weighed 700 lbs....you could still wear the uniform.

Granted PT failure would get you out of the USAF quick (and they measure you waist during that) and morbid obesity would get you MEB'ed real quick too....but you would continue to wear the uniform up until the last day.

this is a nit-picking hair-splitting distinction.....but an important one.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Storm Chaser

#8
Unless waived, Air Force men must currently have no more than a 39-inch waist and women no more than a 35.5-inch waist. Otherwise, they fail the PT test regardless of their other scores. Because they also get scored on the abdominal circumference, having a larger waist will also affect their overall PT test scores.

Air Force members height and weight are also measured during their annual physical, and an Air Force doctor may determine that a member is overweight and needs to lose weight. In addition, commanders can address members who do not present a good military appearance while in uniform due to weight.

lordmonar

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 04, 2015, 01:43:14 AM
Unless waived, Air Force men must currently have no more than a 39-inch waist and women no more than a 35.5-inch waist. Otherwise, they fail the PT test regardless of their other scores. Because they also get scored on the abdominal circumference, having a larger waist will also affect their overall PT test scores.

Air Force members height and weight are also measured during the annual physical and an Air Force doctor may determine that a member is overweight and needs to lose weight. In addition, commanders can address members who do not present a good military appearance while in uniform due to weight.
Yes.  I believe I said all that.  And they get to wear the uniform right up to their last day on active duty.   

My point is....that the USAF has standards for being IN the USAF....but not standards for being allowed to wear the uniform.

Like I said....hair-splitting, Nit-picking distinction....but important to note when discussing this topic.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

sarmed1

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 04, 2015, 01:43:14 AM
Unless waived, Air Force men must currently have no more than a 39-inch waist and women no more than a 35.5-inch waist. Otherwise, they fail the PT test regardless of their other scores. Because they also get scored on the abdominal circumference, having a larger waist will also affect their overall PT test scores.

...

that waiver happens to be a body fat percentage; so in essence, as long as you fall in the body fat standard (which I forget off hand) waist size is still irrelevant.  Ultimately being a big boy/girl doe not outright disqualify you from uniform wear.

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

Storm Chaser

Quote from: lordmonar on July 04, 2015, 01:48:30 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 04, 2015, 01:43:14 AM
Unless waived, Air Force men must currently have no more than a 39-inch waist and women no more than a 35.5-inch waist. Otherwise, they fail the PT test regardless of their other scores. Because they also get scored on the abdominal circumference, having a larger waist will also affect their overall PT test scores.

Air Force members height and weight are also measured during the annual physical and an Air Force doctor may determine that a member is overweight and needs to lose weight. In addition, commanders can address members who do not present a good military appearance while in uniform due to weight.
Yes.  I believe I said all that.  And they get to wear the uniform right up to their last day on active duty.   

My point is....that the USAF has standards for being IN the USAF....but not standards for being allowed to wear the uniform.

Like I said....hair-splitting, Nit-picking distinction....but important to note when discussing this topic.

I was providing information on current Air Force policies, not replying to your post. Air Force members can "wear the uniform right up to their last day on active duty" because it's required by service members and the Air Force does not have alternative uniforms for those who do not meet appropriate standards. CAP senior members are not required to wear the Air Force-style uniform and do have alternative corporate uniforms available for those who do not meet the required standards. That's not splitting hairs, but a fact.

Out.

Shuman 14

Quote from: kwe1009 on July 04, 2015, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: sarmed1 on July 03, 2015, 11:14:46 PM
USAF members are only required to present a professional image while in uniform.  If that means you weigh 250 lbs, as long as you don't look like your uniform is bursting at the seams you are pretty much good to go.

I am sure CAP is hesitant to go to such a standard only because no one is likely to enforce that to harshly.  (though as a USAF reservist, I haven't seen it pushed to hard either)

MK

Got to have a 39 inch or smaller waist too no matter how tall you are.  Measuring everyone's waist in CAP would not go over very well I don't think.  That is probably why CAP is using the last real weight standards that the USAF had.

39 inches! I had that in like sixth grade, never since!  :o
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

PHall

Quote from: shuman14 on July 04, 2015, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: kwe1009 on July 04, 2015, 12:16:42 AM
Quote from: sarmed1 on July 03, 2015, 11:14:46 PM
USAF members are only required to present a professional image while in uniform.  If that means you weigh 250 lbs, as long as you don't look like your uniform is bursting at the seams you are pretty much good to go.

I am sure CAP is hesitant to go to such a standard only because no one is likely to enforce that to harshly.  (though as a USAF reservist, I haven't seen it pushed to hard either)

MK

Got to have a 39 inch or smaller waist too no matter how tall you are.  Measuring everyone's waist in CAP would not go over very well I don't think.  That is probably why CAP is using the last real weight standards that the USAF had.

39 inches! I had that in like sixth grade, never since!  :o


Then it's probably a good thing you're not in the Air Force/Air Force Reserve/Air National Guard then.

Shuman 14

Concur, when I was in the Corps, it was a simple meet the weight or not, the Army does a body fat index using a tape test if you don't meet table weight; which is better but not a 100% accurate.

Seen enough people slide by using the "suck gut" method or doing about the hundred barbell shrugs right before they tape.

Most accurate is hydrostatic displacement but the Army won't pay for that.

An arbitrary waist measurement makes little sense. You could be 5'1" and ALL gut and pass it but be 5'11" and solid muscle and fail it.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

TheSkyHornet

I find that there are a lot of seniors, especially those in higher up positions (generally older seniors), who are well outside of the height/weight requirements for their age still wearing the Air Force uniform. I think it's because nobody dare tell them they can't. Then again, we've all seen active duty officers who don't meet the height/weight requirements wearing their uniforms because there's no way anyone is going to go up to an O-5 and tell them they aren't in proper uniform.

What I can't stand is seeing seniors who have one BDU sleeve buttoned and the other unbuttoned, collars all jacked up, and their hair isn't cut/styled to regs. It sets a terrible example and looks greatly unprofessional.

I was taught you either wear the uniform properly or you get out of the uniform.

And if I see one more faux hawk.....ugh...

sarmed1

Quote from: shuman14 on July 09, 2015, 02:33:02 PM
...

Seen enough people slide by using the "suck gut" method or doing about the hundred barbell shrugs right before they tape.
...

I was doing the taping for my unit one weekend (National Guard) had the guy fail on Saturday, told him come back on sunday and we would re-weigh and tape.  He passed the tape on sunday.  I asked him what he did, he told me he put a free weight on a strap and and put it around his neck and lifted it up and down until he couldn't lift it anymore.....

MK
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

THRAWN

Quote from: SM/McNeilly on July 09, 2015, 03:04:03 PM
I find that there are a lot of seniors, especially those in higher up positions (generally older seniors), who are well outside of the height/weight requirements for their age still wearing the Air Force uniform. I think it's because nobody dare tell them they can't. Then again, we've all seen active duty officers who don't meet the height/weight requirements wearing their uniforms because there's no way anyone is going to go up to an O-5 and tell them they aren't in proper uniform.

What I can't stand is seeing seniors who have one BDU sleeve buttoned and the other unbuttoned, collars all jacked up, and their hair isn't cut/styled to regs. It sets a terrible example and looks greatly unprofessional.

I was taught you either wear the uniform properly or you get out of the uniform.

And if I see one more faux hawk.....ugh...

Horsehockey.

If you see a CAP member with a questionable uniform, call them on it. The majority of the times that I did this, it was greeted with, while looking down and patting their upper body "What? Oh, really? Well thanks for pointing that out..." Most times it was corrected by the next time they came to a CAP event. Of course, there are those rare exceptions where the person is a burro. Then they always have a commander...Where are you seeing AD unis out of whack? I have a hard time believing that, with all of the testing, taping, PFTs, and more taping. As to your comment about nobody wanting to call an O5 on their uniform, that is why there are O6s....
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

LSThiker

Quote from: SM/McNeilly on July 09, 2015, 03:04:03 PM
Then again, we've all seen active duty officers who don't meet the height/weight requirements wearing their uniforms because there's no way anyone is going to go up to an O-5 and tell them they aren't in proper uniform.

They are still in proper uniform if they do not meet the appropriate H/W requirements assuming they are not busting a button.  Not meeting H/W is not not being in proper uniform.  The two are unrelated.

Quote from: THRAWN on July 09, 2015, 04:47:23 PM
Where are you seeing AD unis out of whack? I have a hard time believing that, with all of the testing, taping, PFTs, and more taping. As to your comment about nobody wanting to call an O5 on their uniform, that is why there are O6s....

There are plenty of people in the military that do not meet height/weight or equivalent standards.  The difference is, even though they do not meet H/W, they are still required to wear their uniform.  There is no alternative to their uniform like we have in CAP with the corporate uniforms. 

In all honesty, unless the uniform looks like garbage, that O-6 is not going to say anything.  The E-9 advisor is probably the best person that will correct that O-5.

THRAWN

"There are plenty of people in the military that do not meet height/weight or equivalent standards.  The difference is, even though they do not meet H/W, they are still required to wear their uniform.  There is no alternative to their uniform like we have in CAP with the corporate uniforms."

Agreed. If that's the case, they have a small window to get into specs, or get out. They're also not as common as the poster I replied to seems to imply. Agree too about the SEA, and like you state, depends on how lousy the uniform looks.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023