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ABU Wear Test

Started by winterg, December 11, 2015, 05:44:27 PM

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Garibaldi

And why are we even talking about it again? The decision was made several years ago BY CAP to take ABUs off the table. It is a non-issue. It is a dead horse. It has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS A DEAD HORSE!!!
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

winterg

There are no dead horses in CAPTalk. Only batting practice.

Al Sayre

The Zombie Apocalypse is upon us! >:D
Lt Col Al Sayre
MS Wing Staff Dude
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
GRW #2787

arajca

Disregarding the whole ABU issue, there is no reason why these particular officers should be wearing a working uniform to a ceremonial activity at Arlington. PERIOD. They are not cadets who have not received their blues yet. >:(

lordmonar

Placing the wreaths is a working event. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

NIN

Quote from: lordmonar on December 11, 2015, 10:01:23 PM
Placing the wreaths is a working event.

Come on, Pat.  You're thousands of miles away. In VEGAS. Can't you assume you can discern EXACTLY whats going on from ONE photo and make some ASSUMPTIONS that the officers depicted are doing something WRONG?

Cuz everybody else is.

BTW, you'll all see this thru your respective chains of command pretty soon

QuoteThe following email is sent on behalf of Col Richard J. Greenwood, CAP, in his capacity as Chairman of the National Uniform Committee:

To All Members of the Command Council and the National Staff:

For some time now there has been a lot of discussion about Civil Air Patrol transitioning to a new utility uniform, due to several issues with the current BDU. One option was for us to seek approval to transition to the ABU. In the past, the decision was made to delay transitioning to the ABU for many reasons. Recent events have made it possible for us to reconsider that decision.

Currently, the National Uniform Committee has been examining the possibility of transitioning to the ABU uniform, and what a CAP specific ABU might look like. As part of that proposal, there will be wear tests conducted by some members. Many of you may have seen a photograph circling around the Internet that shows two CAP Officers wearing one prototype of the ABU uniform.

I would like to  assure you all that these wear tests will be very limited in scope, and have been approved by CAP-USAF and the National Commander for the specific purpose of testing the viability of a CAP ABU.

We are in the very early stages of this proposal. There is absolutely no guarantee that CAP will pursue the option to transition to a version of the ABU. As such, I would caution you against purchasing any ABU items until such time as a final decision is made.

Please share this information with your subordinate commanders

In the meantime, keep accusing people of doing the wrong thing.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

lordmonar

Oh I'm sorry.   I forgot this was CAPTALK! :)
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

celluloidsamurai



Please read the message below. Maybe change is coming after all.





The following email is sent on behalf of Col Richard J. Greenwood, CAP, in his capacity as Chairman of the National Uniform Committee:



To All Members of the Command Council and the National Staff:



For some time now there has been a lot of discussion about Civil Air Patrol transitioning to a new utility uniform, due to several issues with the current BDU. One option was for us to seek approval to transition to the ABU. In the past, the decision was made to delay transitioning to the ABU for many reasons. Recent events have made it possible for us to reconsider that decision.

Currently, the National Uniform Committee has been examining the possibility of transitioning to the ABU uniform, and what a CAP specific ABU might look like. As part of that proposal, there will be wear tests conducted by some members. Many of you may have seen a photograph circling around the Internet that shows two CAP Officers wearing one prototype of the ABU uniform.

I would like to  assure you all that these wear tests will be very limited in scope, and have been approved by CAP-USAF and the National Commander for the specific purpose of testing the viability of a CAP ABU.

We are in the very early stages of this proposal. There is absolutely no guarantee that CAP will pursue the option to transition to a version of the ABU. As such, I would caution you against purchasing any ABU items until such time as a final decision is made.








Lt Col David Stoner, CAP

Squadron Commander

SER-TN-005  Smyrna Composite Squadron

(C) 901.230.9255

U.S. Air Force Auxiliary

sertn005.shutterfly.com
gocivilairpatrol.com




NIN

Quote from: arajca on December 11, 2015, 09:57:19 PM
Disregarding the whole ABU issue, there is no reason why these particular officers should be wearing a working uniform to a ceremonial activity at Arlington. PERIOD. They are not cadets who have not received their blues yet. >:(

Yeah, you're right. 

Of course you are. Based on one photo.

See, cuz when you're presented with an image lacking context, its always the most appropriate thing to do to assume that the people in the photos are doing the wrong thing.

Even if they're senior officers.

Yep.

Do you happen to have the letter of instruction for today's event that specifies what the Uniform of the Day is?

No?

Then how can you state with *absolute* certainty that the officers in question should not be wearing a "working uniform?"

You can't.



Especially when other photos show others at the event in similar uniforms.

I'm sure they're not all just some rogue CAP colonels, are they?

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Ned

Quote from: NIN on December 11, 2015, 10:21:21 PM

I'm sure they're not all just some rogue CAP colonels, are they?

To be fair, some of us are.   8)

FW

Well, I guess all the "millions" of posts here on CT have been productive...  Of course there is still the distinct possibility this "wear test" will fade away in the wash in favor of a CAP distinctive utility uniform... :angel:

LSThiker

Quote from: NIN on December 11, 2015, 10:21:21 PM

See, cuz when you're presented with an image lacking context, its always the most appropriate thing to do to assume that the people in the photos are doing the wrong thing.

Even if they're senior officers.

Yep.

Do you happen to have the letter of instruction for today's event that specifies what the Uniform of the Day is?

No?

Then how can you state with *absolute* certainty that the officers in question should not be wearing a "working uniform?"

You can't.

To be fair, Nin, the regs do state that in no case will BDUs or other working uniforms be worn in the National Capitol area:

Quote1.2.4.4. All CAP personnel touring Washington DC, as part of a CAP activity or conducting CAP business in the National Capital Area, will wear the service uniform (Class B), Aviator Shirt Uniform or civilian attire, and will be properly groomed. Officers and NCO visiting the White House, Capitol Building, State Department, or comparable buildings in uniform will wear the Service Dress Uniform (Class A) or Corporate Service Uniform. Cadets may wear Class A or Class B with tie. In no case will BDUs, flight suits, or utility uniforms be worn

But yes, I agree that assumptions do fly wild on CAPTalk. 

rmutchler


JeffDG

Quote from: winterg on December 11, 2015, 06:09:53 PM
I would think there would be SOME type of notice somewhere.
It was announced in an e-mail from S. Parker at NHQ to all members of the CAP Command Council this afternoon.  Wing Commanders were encouraged to share the announcement with their subordinate commanders.

HGjunkie

ABU's wear the same as BDU's - the new RABU variants are basically BDUs with the new pattern and some extra pockets. They do have coloration issues however, depending on what environment you're in and if you use them for anything outside of office-type work. Although they don't fade horribly.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

SarDragon

Quote from: NCRblues on December 11, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Odd, something seems off with this.

If it is official, why in DC? Are we not required by regulation to have on dress blues in the DC area for official function?

If it's not official, what is CAP going to do about 2 region CC's going rouge?

(I also enjoy the double standards of captalk though. If those people had anything less than full birds on the collars this place would be going nuts destroying the people)

Funny, I don't see a hint of red anywhere.  >:D
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

SarDragon

Quote from: LSThiker on December 11, 2015, 10:50:18 PM


To be fair, Nin, the regs do state that in no case will BDUs or other working uniforms be worn in the National Capitol area:

Quote1.2.4.4. All CAP personnel touring Washington DC, as part of a CAP activity or conducting CAP business in the National Capital Area, will wear the service uniform (Class B), Aviator Shirt Uniform or civilian attire, and will be properly groomed. Officers and NCO visiting the White House, Capitol Building, State Department, or comparable buildings in uniform will wear the Service Dress Uniform (Class A) or Corporate Service Uniform. Cadets may wear Class A or Class B with tie. In no case will BDUs, flight suits, or utility uniforms be worn

But yes, I agree that assumptions do fly wild on CAPTalk.

That's subject to interpretation, in that our national cemetery and the five-sided wind tunnel are both in Arlington, and not DC proper, and some two and a half miles from the Capitol Building.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Garibaldi

Quote from: celluloidsamurai on December 11, 2015, 10:19:54 PM


Please read the message below. Maybe change is coming after all.





The following email is sent on behalf of Col Richard J. Greenwood, CAP, in his capacity as Chairman of the National Uniform Committee:



To All Members of the Command Council and the National Staff:



For some time now there has been a lot of discussion about Civil Air Patrol transitioning to a new utility uniform, due to several issues with the current BDU. One option was for us to seek approval to transition to the ABU. In the past, the decision was made to delay transitioning to the ABU for many reasons. Recent events have made it possible for us to reconsider that decision.

Currently, the National Uniform Committee has been examining the possibility of transitioning to the ABU uniform, and what a CAP specific ABU might look like. As part of that proposal, there will be wear tests conducted by some members. Many of you may have seen a photograph circling around the Internet that shows two CAP Officers wearing one prototype of the ABU uniform.

I would like to  assure you all that these wear tests will be very limited in scope, and have been approved by CAP-USAF and the National Commander for the specific purpose of testing the viability of a CAP ABU.

We are in the very early stages of this proposal. There is absolutely no guarantee that CAP will pursue the option to transition to a version of the ABU. As such, I would caution you against purchasing any ABU items until such time as a final decision is made.








Lt Col David Stoner, CAP

Squadron Commander

SER-TN-005  Smyrna Composite Squadron

(C) 901.230.9255

U.S. Air Force Auxiliary

sertn005.shutterfly.com
gocivilairpatrol.com

He's my wing CC and sent the same message as I'm seeing elsewhere. Looks like a boilerplate memo.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

NIN

Quote from: LSThiker on December 11, 2015, 10:50:18 PM
To be fair, Nin, the regs do state that in no case will BDUs or other working uniforms be worn in the National Capitol area:

Quote1.2.4.4. All CAP personnel touring Washington DC, as part of a CAP activity or conducting CAP business in the National Capital Area, will wear the service uniform (Class B), Aviator Shirt Uniform or civilian attire, and will be properly groomed. Officers and NCO visiting the White House, Capitol Building, State Department, or comparable buildings in uniform will wear the Service Dress Uniform (Class A) or Corporate Service Uniform. Cadets may wear Class A or Class B with tie. In no case will BDUs, flight suits, or utility uniforms be worn

But yes, I agree that assumptions do fly wild on CAPTalk.

Yep, you're definitely correct about that in the 39-1.

I suspect that when the first WAA came around and it was time to do the "working party" things in the garden, they followed the Old Guard's lead for working uniforms instead of having people trying to do "fatigue" work in a "dress" uniform in December. And likely not even with things like overcoats and such, even if it was appropriate.

And then someone said "Hey, we're not technically in DC for this, right?" 

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

MSG Mac

Quote from: NIN on December 12, 2015, 02:13:30 AM
Quote from: LSThiker on December 11, 2015, 10:50:18 PM
To be fair, Nin, the regs do state that in no case will BDUs or other working uniforms be worn in the National Capitol area:

Quote1.2.4.4. All CAP personnel touring Washington DC, as part of a CAP activity or conducting CAP business in the National Capital Area, will wear the service uniform (Class B), Aviator Shirt Uniform or civilian attire, and will be properly groomed. Officers and NCO visiting the White House, Capitol Building, State Department, or comparable buildings in uniform will wear the Service Dress Uniform (Class A) or Corporate Service Uniform. Cadets may wear Class A or Class B with tie. In no case will BDUs, flight suits, or utility uniforms be worn

But yes, I agree that assumptions do fly wild on CAPTalk.

Yep, you're definitely correct about that in the 39-1.

I suspect that when the first WAA came around and it was time to do the "working party" things in the garden, they followed the Old Guard's lead for working uniforms instead of having people trying to do "fatigue" work in a "dress" uniform in December. And likely not even with things like overcoats and such, even if it was appropriate.

And then someone said "Hey, we're not technically in DC for this, right?" 



But you are within the MDW/AFDW
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member