I've got the blues about my "blues"

[Walkman]

OK, so I look at 39-1 and it shows men's short sleeve blues with wing patch on left should and nothing on the collar. The binder I just got as a new member shows the blues with no wing patch and CAP cutouts on the collar.

So, help me make sense of this, please...

[captrncap]

Wing Patch was removed last year and CAP cutouts are for Senior Members Without Grade

[Pylon]

To help clarify, there have been changes made to our uniforms since the release of the uniform manual.  When looking up how to wear your uniform, you should always check the Interim Change Letters in addition to CAPM 39-1.  The most recent Interim Change Letters can be found here:  http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/member_services/publications/policy_letters.cfm

The Wing Patches are no longer worn on any of the blues uniforms (shirts, service coats, jackets, sweaters, etc.).  They are optional for wear on the BDUs (member's choice, unless local policy dictates otherwise).

The blue embroidered cutouts are for Senior Members without Grade (also just referred to as "SM").  The metal, pin-on cutouts are for Cadet Airmen Basics (C/AB).

[Walkman]

Good thing I just used that iron-on tape last night to put the wing patch on! I was meeting a reporter who's going to do a few stories on us and only had time to quickly put together the new stuff. Did a quick check on the 39-1 PDF to see what went were and ran off. Saw the other binder thing after I got home. None at the meeting corrected me about it though...maybe they were being nice to the new guy.

Thanks for the link, Pylon. I'd read chatter about frequent uniform changes, but didn't know about where (or when) to look.

Now for a follow-up question- do I wear the SM embroidered collar thingies with the gray SMWOG epaulets? I see that the other officers don't have grade insignia on their collars, but on the shoulders.

[RogueLeader]

Note:
For SMOG, you wear the metal cutouts on the Collar of Blues, but embroidered on the BDUs/BBDUs.

[Pylon]

Now for a follow-up question- do I wear the SM embroidered collar thingies with the gray SMWOG epaulets? I see that the other officers don't have grade insignia on their collars, but on the shoulders.

Sorry, I'm half-asleep this morning.  Not enough Starbucks.  

The embroidered cutouts are for BDUs.  On blues, you wear the metal pin on CAP cutouts on the collar as a SM, and do not wear any epaulet sleeves/shouldermarks.  Once you attain a grade (Flight Officer, NCO, or Officer), then you wear the grey epaulet sleeves (or blue, if you wear the new corporate uniform affectionately known as the TPU) and remove the cutouts.

It's also a pain in the rear (since you'll be an officer in under 6 months) but as a SM without grade, you have to wear the enlisted flight CAP (no silver braid).  When you become a 2d Lt or FO, you would then switch to the officer flight cap.

[RogueLeader]

It's also a pain in the rear (since you'll be an officer in under 6 months) but as a SM without grade, you have to wear the enlisted flight CAP (no silver braid).  When you become a 2d Lt or FO, you would then switch to the officer flight cap.

Really?  I never knew that.  I've always seen the regular one worn.  Where in 39-1 is it?

[Pylon]

Really?  I never knew that.  I've always seen the regular one worn.  Where in 39-1 is it?

CAPM 39-1, Table 2-1 (Men's Service, Mess Dress, and Semiformal Uniforms (page 51).  My emphasis added.

Flight Cap. 
...
Cap has dark-blue colored edge braid for cadets, senior member NCOs, Airmen and senior members without grade;  silver and blue in a diamond pattern edge braid for all senior member officers; and silver-colored edge braid for general officers.

[Walkman]

On blues, you wear the metal pin on CAP cutouts on the collar as a SM, and do not wear any epaulet sleeves/shouldermarks.  Once you attain a grade (Flight Officer, NCO, or Officer), then you wear the grey epaulet sleeves (or blue, if you wear the new corporate uniform affectionately known as the TPU) and remove the cutouts.

Snap! I had read somewhere that I was supposed to wear the plain ep's without grade on them. I ordered them from Vanguard. Is that another recent change?

[MIKE]

No, you were misinformed. 

Note to everybody:  This is why SMs without grade should not wear service uniforms until they are at least 2d Lt.  Wear a golf shirt for the 6 months.

[Pylon]

I had read somewhere that I was supposed to wear the plain ep's without grade on them. I ordered them from Vanguard. Is that another recent change?

Nope, that's just a misconception.  Senior members without grade have never worn the blank SM epaulet sleeves.  Nobody ever has.  In fact, I wish Vanguard would stop selling them as they have no more use in CAP now that NCO epaulet sleeves are embroidered.

CAPM 39-1 is pretty clear that Senior Members without grade wear metal CAP cutouts on the collar in blues, and embroidered CAP cutouts in BDUs.

[Lancer]

Note to everybody:  This is why SMs without grade should not wear service uniforms until they are at least 2d Lt.  Wear a golf shirt for the 6 months.

Agreed, that is exactly what I did.

That solution should live in the new 39-1 to end headaches and confusion for SMWOG's. 6 months goes by SO fast; besides, by the time you figure out what you need, and order it from Vanguard, your 6 months will be up and you'll finally be a FO or 2d Lt. 

[Walkman]

Nope, that's just a misconception.  Senior members without grade have never worn the blank SM epaulet sleeves.  Nobody ever has.  In fact, I wish Vanguard would stop selling them as they have no more use in CAP now that NCO epaulet sleeves are embroidered.

I wish I could remember where I got that from...

Oh well, my bad.

This is why SMs without grade should not wear service uniforms until they are at least 2d Lt.  Wear a golf shirt for the 6 months.

Our DCC brought me over some blues from the hangar and told me to see what fit (we get hand-me downs from AF ROTC), so I figured it would be okay to get them in order and wear 'em. As you can see from this thread, the regs are not real easy to figure out for new people.

Anyway, now that I'm straightened out, I'll get my stuff in proper order.

Thanks.

[jimmydeanno]

Walkman,

No offense to you whatsoever, but this is just another example of CAP members leaving the new guy out to dry and figure stuff out on his own and only advocates better initial training.

I am really glad that you took the time to ask questions here, but wouldn't it have been nice if someone said, "here, you need to order these things for your uniform, this is what you should wear, you can get them here.  When they come in, I'll help you sort through 39-1..."

I am saddened when new members are just left to start on their own devices and get confused in the world that is CAP.

Maybe you can cancel the blank epaulet sleeves before they ship because you'll never use them.

[isuhawkeye]

not to cause problems, but where does level I fit in this problem

[Pylon]

not to cause problems, but where does level I fit in this problem

In a perfect world?  Level I would address all of these issues, for sure.  Unfortunately, uneven administration of Level I at local units across CAP leaves uneven education of new members.

[Walkman]

Walkman,

No offense to you whatsoever, but this is just another example of CAP members leaving the new guy out to dry and figure stuff out on his own and only advocates better initial training.

I am really glad that you took the time to ask questions here, but wouldn't it have been nice if someone said, "here, you need to order these things for your uniform, this is what you should wear, you can get them here.  When they come in, I'll help you sort through 39-1..."

I am saddened when new members are just left to start on their own devices and get confused in the world that is CAP.

I think in my case it's more that I wanted to get going faster than what they were used to. I finished Level One the week after I got my temp card and went on a crash diet and shaved to meet grooming standards. They were kinda' whiplashed. Overall, they've been very helpful and taken good care of me.

not to cause problems, but where does level I fit in this problem

.

Here is where I think I got confused about the ep's. This is the quote from the Level One Uniforms PDF:
"Rank Insignia (mandatory): Officers will wear gray embroidered epaulets with rank insignia."

I saw the "mandatory", saw that they were available at Vanguard, ordered them. I haven't been sent a shipping notice on the order, so I'll cancel them.

The color pages with uniforms that came in the binder were much easier to figure out than 39-1, but they are out of date on some details.

<rant>
This is a bit OT, but not too far-
After spending years and years designing communication materials for tons of different companies and orgs, I would love a chance to rework some of the forms/pamphlets/regs. I'm not talking about making them super flashy or anything, just implementing good information design techniques to make them more usable. I see from the constant "where is that in the regs" posts here that I'm not alone.
</rant>

[RogueLeader]

I saw the "mandatory", saw that they were available at Vanguard, ordered them. I haven't been sent a shipping notice on the order, so I'll cancel them.

Thats a common misconception I have noticed since the term 'Cap Officer" has come into existence.  SMWOG is not an Officer Grade. FO through MG are Officer Grades. Slightly off topic, but serves my point- For example  if a 2d Lt wants to take an AFIADL test, I put down O-1, if I enroll an SMWOG, it's listed as an E-1. 

[jimmydeanno]

^A Flight Officer is not an officer (To Hold CAP Officer grade you must be 21) this by default makes FOs not officers...That would make those 2d Lt - Maj Gen officer grades which would get the silver braid in their flight cap (of course there is the different variations of silver braid...)...

Flight Cap: ... Senior member officer flight cap has silver and blue braid. All others wear flight cap with solid blue braid.

[Pylon]

^A Flight Officer is not an officer

Actually, you'll notice that Flight Officers are conspicuously left out of the detailed list of those who will wear the blue braided edge.  It then goes on to say that "senior member officers" wear the one with silver and blue braid.

If you read CAPM 39-1, Section 1-3, for the purposes of the uniform manual, Flight Officers are part of the category of "senior member officers."

1-3. Definition of Terms:
a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.