Cold Weather Gear - ABU

[xray328]

I was looking over the ABU wear instructions and there's really no information regarding authorized cold weather gear other than:

Cold Weather Accessories. Cold weather accessories will only be worn when wearing authorized outer
garments (Exception: gloves worn solely with ABUs). With the exception of functional items, cold weather
accessories are only worn while outdoors.

The instructions also say that the only authorized headgear is the ABU cap.  I know when it comes to keeping the cadets warm there's been some flexibility given in the past (civilian coats etc). Specifically, can cadets wear the black watch cap as was allowed with the BDU?  We're participating in the Wreaths Across America ceremony this weekend and temperatures are expected to be in the low 30's.

I understand the "if the letter says it's authorized it is and if it doesn't it's not" mentality.  I'm just looking to keep the cadets warm/safe.

Thanks.

[THRAWN]

Ugh. This is what happens when you cut and paste out of AFIs and field with no review. Quick look says that the only authorized outer garments are what is listed. You could wear thermals that meet the regs...or drag out the old BDUs....

[xray328]

Thanks, like I said, some flexibility has given in the past. As I'm sure you know, not every cadet is going to have the M-65 and some of the newer cadets only have the ABU's. How many times have you seen cadets show up at meetings in the winter in BDU's with no coat or gloves? Certainly you'd have them wear civilian jackets if that's all they have.

[jeders]

Unfortunately, at this time the sage green watch cap is not authorized with the CAP ABU. As THRAWN correctly points out, this is the kind of issue you have when people just copy and paste from source materials without actually looking at or thinking about what they are copying.

[xray328]

I did think about what I was copy/pasting.   I referred to the wear guidelines and still had questions.

The guidelines make no mention of it, and again, flexibility has been given in the past.  No wear in the 39-1 does it say civilian jackets are authorized with the BDU combination but we've all seen and encouraged it if that's all the cadet has.  These wear instructions come from NHQ, the same NHQ that authorized the green fleece without instruction on rank placement or a supplier for wear on the green fleece.  NHQ isn't perfect, as we all know they've over looked things in the past. 

In the mean time, my concern is to keep the cadets safe. 

[THRAWN]

I did think about what I was copy/pasting.   I referred to the wear guidelines and still had questions.

The guidelines make no mention of it, and again, flexibility has been given in the past.  No wear in the 39-1 does it say civilian jackets are authorized with the BDU combination but we've all seen and encouraged it if that's all the cadet has.  These wear instructions come from NHQ, the same NHQ that authorized the green fleece without instruction on rank placement or a supplier for wear on the green fleece.  NHQ isn't perfect, as we all know they've over looked things in the past. 

In the mean time, my concern is to keep the cadets safe.

You do realize that this hatchet job of a wear instruction is pulled directly from the AFI, right? That's what we're referring to. Have you run this through your chain? If the interest is keeping the cadets safe, that should have been done when you were planning the activity, not 4 days prior. This all should have been thought out well in advance of the instruction and authorization being published. It gets cold in North America in the winter and hot in the summer. This organization has been wearing uniforms for 75 years. Issuing instructions on how to wear them properly should not be a reactive exercise. And I swear if I hear "well they're just volunteers..." I will lose my marbles...

And what happened to doing this in the service uniform?

[xray328]

I didn't come on here to argue with you Thrawn. I just think this was overlooked by NHQ, wear instructions for a warm hat are provided by the AFI, NHQ did not include them and I think that may have been an oversight.  Some of the ABU wear instructions have come down in bits and pieces (squadron patches etc). I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this might be such a case.

[SMWOG]

I would wear the sage or black watch cap....it's cold outside. Wear thermals underneath.

[THRAWN]

I didn't come on here to argue with you Thrawn. I just think this was overlooked by NHQ, wear instructions for a warm hat are provided by the AFI, NHQ did not include them and I think that may have been an oversight.  Some of the ABU wear instructions have come down in bits and pieces (squadron patches etc). I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this might be such a case.

We're saying the same thing, not arguing. It just really is personally offensive to me that this organizations demands that members be in uniform but doesn't put out the rules in a complete and timely manner. There is no need to issue multiple revisions to the instruction if it was done right the first time. I loathe sloppy work.

[xray328]

Oh ok, I misunderstood.

[Fubar]

I know when it comes to keeping the cadets warm there's been some flexibility given in the past (civilian coats etc)

Just to be clear, that flexibility you saw was not authorized and still isn't. That said, it happens everywhere.

[arajca]

Per the latest instructions on ABUs, the woodland pattern field jacket and gortex parka are authorized for wear with the ABU.

[abdsp51]

Per the latest instructions on ABUs, the woodland pattern field jacket and gortex parka are authorized for wear with the ABU.

Correct and they can wear earmuffs as well as long as they are black.

[THRAWN]

Per the latest instructions on ABUs, the woodland pattern field jacket and gortex parka are authorized for wear with the ABU.

Correct and they can wear earmuffs as well as long as they are black.

Source? It's not in the latest instruction.

[Spam]

You're right, xray, it is not unreasonable to expect a well coordinated design change package to look forward and take into account all these variables. For whatever reason, that didn't happen. Question is do we commit equally bad errors, or do we set the bar high? ("Excellence in All We Do", anyone)?

I did think about what I was copy/pasting.   I referred to the wear guidelines and still had questions.
The guidelines make no mention of it, and again, flexibility has been given in the past. 

The limits of that flexibility come only from your appointed Wing Commander - the lowest level permitted to Supplement 39-1, per Sections 2.8 and 9.4. You and your fellows are not allowed to improvise on the fly:

CAPM 39-1 26 JUNE 2014
"1.1.2.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within. Variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards".

No wear in the 39-1 does it say civilian jackets are authorized with the BDU combination but we've all seen and encouraged it if that's all the cadet has.

We've all seen it. Those of us who follow the regs have stopped it. You should too!  Pre-deployment, make it clear (uniform only). On arrival, screen them as they arrive, and politely inform and send away members who don't have the UOD with safe outerwear. That includes black watch caps and civilian jackets and other outerwear (less the approved goretex and field jackets, which do have hoods (hint hint)).

In the mean time, my concern is to keep the cadets safe.

That's admirable. Tell them to get in a 39-1 compliant, safe uniform combo, OR, to not participate in this voluntary activity. Nothing requires them to either purchase the uniform, or to take part in the activity. By throwing out the "BUT SAFETY" flag, members who then knowingly break uniform regulations are eroding the principles of leadership we're charged with imparting to cadets, and are damaging the image of the Air Force. Please consider the image we would be projecting to the public by allowing members to participate in a public ceremonial activity while wearing nonstandard head gear and an uncoordinated, amateurish variety of civilian jackets, which reflects very poorly on our parent service.


I'm with Thrawn, philosophically on this. I hate sloppy work. Excellence in all we do. So, lets fix that at whatever levels we can, but lets be honest: nothing here merits the "safety" flag to be thrown for this activity. Keep them home, if that's the case, or put them in explicitly approved uniform items, only.


V/r
Spam

[abdsp51]

Per the latest instructions on ABUs, the woodland pattern field jacket and gortex parka are authorized for wear with the ABU.

Correct and they can wear earmuffs as well as long as they are black.

Source? It's not in the latest instruction.

The updated ABU wear instruction dated 24 Oct 2016. 

Cold weather accessories.  Cold weather accessories will only be worn when wearing authorized outer garments (Exception: gloves worn solely with ABUs).  With the exception of functional items, cold weather gear accessories are only worn while indoors.

CAPR39-1 5.1 1.10 defines cold weather accessories.

6.3.1.7.3 defines warmuff color and design.

[Spam]

Per the latest instructions on ABUs, the woodland pattern field jacket and gortex parka are authorized for wear with the ABU.

Correct and they can wear earmuffs as well as long as they are black.

Source? It's not in the latest instruction.

Here's the food chain that I think he's thinking of (which the ABU authorization appears silent on, to me). I've just sent an email requesting a clarification on these from my commander (who also is the uniform committee chair) to try to help Xray and co. out:

- Black watch cap currently auth. for BDU per 5.1.1.8. Headgear.

- Gloves/scarf/muffs currently auth. for BDU per 5.1.1.10. Cold Weather Accessories.

- Overarching section currently authorizes wear of some cold weather gear "with authorized outer garments". Since ABUs are now authorized, the implication would be that gloves, scarves, and muffs as defined in 39-1 are authorized if they are as described below (e.g. black or sage green, etc.):

CAPM 39-1 26 JUNE 2014
CHAPTER 6 – OUTERGARMENTS, HEADGEAR, RANK INSIGNIA AND ACCESSORIES
6.3. Jewelry, Eyewear, Electronic Devices, Bags, Backpacks, Cold Weather and Other Accessories.
6.3.1. USAF-style Uniform Standards
6.3.1.7. Cold Weather Accessories. Cold weather accessories will only be worn when
wearing authorized outer garments (Exception: gloves may be worn solely with the service dress uniform
and BDUs). With the exception of functional items, cold weather accessories are only worn while
outdoors.
6.3.1.7.1. Gloves (black or sage green). Gloves may be worn with all authorized
outer garments. They will be all one color, leather, knitted, tricot or suede, or a combination of leather,
knitted, tricot, and suede. Black or sage green gloves may be worn with the BDU and FDU and all
authorized outer garments to the BDU and FDU. Only black gloves may be worn with the service dress
uniform and all approved outer garments worn with the blue service and service dress uniforms.
6.3.1.7.2. Scarf (black). A scarf may be worn with all authorized outer garments
except the pullover and cardigan sweaters (when worn solely as an outer garment). The scarf must be
tucked in and will only be worn with an outer garment. The scarf will not exceed 10 inches in width and
can be knit, all wool or cotton simplex, with or without a napped surface.
6.3.1.7.3. Earmuffs (black). Earmuffs may be worn with all authorized outer
garments and may wrap around either the top or rear of the head. Earmuffs may be made of any material
and will only be worn with an outer garment


V/r
Spam

"No muff too...." (ah, never mind - sorry, could not resist)

[xray328]

Thanks Spam (and abdsp51), very much appreciated.

[THRAWN]

Thanks Spam and abdsp51...

[abdsp51]

NP.  And yes there should have been a more thorough implimentation of the ABU instructions.