What Is This?

[Panache]

I know fabric maanufacture has gone a long way, mostly in the direction of south asia. But sure, new fabrics that hold up (and won't melt on me in a fire), I'm in, all for it.

(looks at tag of uniform shirt)

Hmmm.  "Made in 血汗工廠."

[Private Investigator]

I know fabric maanufacture has gone a long way, mostly in the direction of south asia. But sure, new fabrics that hold up (and won't melt on me in a fire), I'm in, all for it.

(looks at tag of uniform shirt)

Hmmm.  "Made in 血汗工廠."

Interesting mine says "Hecho en 血汗工廠"   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Now if you want to buy uniforms at the low end of the scale for grey/white and look like a rag-a-muffin, then you're right it's not cost effective. 

Which, as I see it, is the main drawing card of the grey/white: it's cheap.

I have certainly not found many (if at all) who actually find it sharp-looking.

[Shuman 14]

Now if you want to buy uniforms at the low end of the scale for grey/white and look like a rag-a-muffin, then you're right it's not cost effective. 

Which, as I see it, is the main drawing card of the grey/white: it's cheap.

I have certainly not found many (if at all) who actually find it sharp-looking.

That's what happens when you have a "uniform" that's not uniform.

If any grey pair of slacks and any white shirt with epaulets and flapped pockets meets the standard, then there really is no standard and many will look like rag-a-muffins.

Imagine an Airman showing up in any medium blue trousers and any light blue shirt with epaulets and pocket flaps to a squadron formation... think that would fly?

Uniformity is the key. If the grey/white corporate uniform is the equivalent of the USAF style uniform, then the quality of fabrics and manufacture of the clothing articles themselves should/must meet the same minimal standards of the USAF style uniform.

Meaning standards must be set and enforced. Such as a regulation/instruction that reads:

"Trousers will be of straight leg manufacture with two front slit pockets and two button tabbed rear pocket. Pleated trousers and flapped pockets are not authorized. Trousers will be manufactured in a 65% polyester and 35% rayon blend in Grey color shade #141907. No other shade or blend is authorized."

Or something similar, but the point being... everyone, who wears grey/white, will be in the SAME uniform. It's expected of those who wear the USAF style uniform, why is it NOT expected from those who wear the corporate uniform?   

[abdsp51]

Shuman have you even cracked 39-1 at all?  There is a set color and criteria for grey pants more so with the draft that will hopefully be implemented shortly.  Again you do a whole lot of lip flapping on something you still know nothing about.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Shuman have you even cracked 39-1 at all?  There is a set color and criteria for grey pants more so with the draft that will hopefully be implemented shortly.  Again you do a whole lot of lip flapping on something you still know nothing about.

There are guidelines, but not specifics.

As Shuman said, any pair of blue trousers will not do for the AF uniform, but I have seen more variations on grey trousers in CAP (Dickies, Dockers and basically anything you can buy at Goodwill/Salvation Army/St Vince's) than I can remember...some of them quite threadbare.

The ones I wear are true uniform pants.  I got them from a vendor in Great Britain that services law enforcement personnel.  They are much sharper (and almost identical to the rank slides/nameplate) than most grey trousers I have seen.  They cost a bit more, but it was worth it.

A big idea behind the G/W is for them to be cheap and easily obtainable, which means uniformity (in all senses of the word) is rather secondary.

[Shuman 14]

Shuman have you even cracked 39-1 at all?  There is a set color and criteria for grey pants more so with the draft that will hopefully be implemented shortly.  Again you do a whole lot of lip flapping on something you still know nothing about.

Yes I have and vague is a word I would use to describe the instructions for the grey/whites.

Also, one doesn't have to be a member of an organization, to observe said organization at a function and see that the members are all in different shades of grey, different cuts of shirts, and some have pleated dress pants on, some tactical pants and others grey dockers.

If that's "right" in your mind, I don't know what to tell you.

[LSThiker]

I figured I would post the requirements for the gray pants:

Of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats, with or without cuffs.  Commercial dress trousers (No jeans or causal trousers made of cotton or twill fabric.) Front of trouser legs rests on the front of shoe or boot. No bunching at waist or sagging at seat. Trousers must be worn at natural waist.

4.2.5.5 Trousers. Medium gray (solid color). Wool, polyester‐wool blend or polyester‐ cotton trousers. Either slim, straight leg or loose fit with or without pleats or cuffs is allowed. 100% cotton, cargo, cotton twill weave trousers, jeans or casual trousers are not authorized with the aviator shirt uniform. "Chinos" style slacks are not authorized with the aviator shirt uniform

[Shuman 14]

^^^ See my point, vague enough to provide a plethora of options so that uniformity is completely lost.

Now imagine a USAF formation with the same instructions for the medium blue pants/trousers.

It would look like a soup sandwich.

So again, how is THAT good for CAP and the professional image that CAP wants to present? 

[MSG Mac]

The Army white shirt is a great alternative to the Vanguard Aviator. Better fabric, lower price, longer shelf  life.

[abdsp51]

Seems clear to me what the paragraph is saying.  What it boils down to is membership not asking the questions and leadership not enforcing the standard.  If membership doesn't read the applicable instructions and leadership doesn't enforce the standard this is what you get. 

[LSThiker]

Seems clear to me what the paragraph is saying.  What it boils down to is membership not asking the questions and leadership not enforcing the standard.  If membership doesn't read the applicable instructions and leadership doesn't enforce the standard this is what you get.

I think you are missing what he is saying.  He is saying:

With the service pants, there is shade 1620 and 1625 only.  The cut and design of the pants are the same for all male personnel and all female personnel.  Those are the only two options you have.

For the corporate uniform you can wear:

Cotton blend
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with cuffs

Flannel
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with cuffs

Tropical Worsted
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with cuffs

Other Commercial blend 1:
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with cuffs

Other Commercial blend 2
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 1 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 1 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 2 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 2 with no pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with no cuff
Medium gray shade 3 with pleats with cuffs
Medium gray shade 3 with no pleats with cuffs

Etc.

You can have people in a formation, which are supposed to look uniform, in all of these combinations.

So while the standard allows all of these, he is suggesting to narrow the standard so that it is similar to the USAF style in which there are only two shades and really only 1 option if you wear the Service Dress Coat.

[Eclipse]

Yes I have and vague is a word I would use to describe the instructions for the grey/whites.

Vague is also a word which describes your involvement in CAP.

[SunDog]

Now if you want to buy uniforms at the low end of the scale for grey/white and look like a rag-a-muffin, then you're right it's not cost effective. 

Which, as I see it, is the main drawing card of the grey/white: it's cheap.

I have certainly not found many (if at all) who actually find it sharp-looking.

That's what happens when you have a "uniform" that's not uniform.

If any grey pair of slacks and any white shirt with epaulets and flapped pockets meets the standard, then there really is no standard and many will look like rag-a-muffins.

Imagine an Airman showing up in any medium blue trousers and any light blue shirt with epaulets and pocket flaps to a squadron formation... think that would fly?

Uniformity is the key. If the grey/white corporate uniform is the equivalent of the USAF style uniform, then the quality of fabrics and manufacture of the clothing articles themselves should/must meet the same minimal standards of the USAF style uniform.

Meaning standards must be set and enforced. Such as a regulation/instruction that reads:

"Trousers will be of straight leg manufacture with two front slit pockets and two button tabbed rear pocket. Pleated trousers and flapped pockets are not authorized. Trousers will be manufactured in a 65% polyester and 35% rayon blend in Grey color shade #141907. No other shade or blend is authorized."

Or something similar, but the point being... everyone, who wears grey/white, will be in the SAME uniform. It's expected of those who wear the USAF style uniform, why is it NOT expected from those who wear the corporate uniform? 

Ewwww. . .nope, no poly. . .I got fire fear, having seen the effects of melt. I get lazy and wear the polo and gray slacks in the airplane when it gets hot, but it creeps me out a bit.  I'm was gonna ditch the "standard" polo this summer, and go with an all cotton polo, as are my gray flying slacks.  It actually doesn't cost that much to have a cotton clone of the polo whipped up.

Still, to keep the peace, the other option could have been to fly exclusively in flight suit,  if your idea came to fruition.

[Eclipse]

Eleventy Twelveteen Million GA pilots fly in shorts and a T-Shirt from the FBO, CAP for some reason needs Nomex.

[Shuman 14]

Yes I have and vague is a word I would use to describe the instructions for the grey/whites.

Vague is also a word which describes your involvement in CAP.

Personal attack aside... it still doesn't change the fact the instruction is vague and does not promote uniformity among CAP members that choose the Corporate uniform option.

[PHall]

Eleventy Twelveteen Million GA pilots fly in shorts and a T-Shirt from the FBO, CAP for some reason needs Nomex.

That's because the CAP pilots are at 500 ft AGL at the low end of the power curve, where the room for error is pretty darn small, looking for those GA pilots.

The type of flying CAP does tends to be a lot less forgiving of errors. So we compromise by wearing PPE, aka NOMEX flightsuits and gloves.

You know, that ORM stuff...

[Eclipse]

You know, that ORM affectation stuff...

FTFY.

Unfortunately statistics, probability, and facts fly directly in the face of the assertions that Nomex is anything but a hardkewl affectation in a CAP context.

[Shuman 14]

Ewwww. . .nope, no poly. . .I got fire fear, having seen the effects of melt. I get lazy and wear the polo and gray slacks in the airplane when it gets hot, but it creeps me out a bit.  I'm was gonna ditch the "standard" polo this summer, and go with an all cotton polo, as are my gray flying slacks.  It actually doesn't cost that much to have a cotton clone of the polo whipped up.

Still, to keep the peace, the other option could have been to fly exclusively in flight suit,  if your idea came to fruition.

Why would you want to fly in a Service uniform? 

[a2capt]

Eleventy Twelveteen Million GA pilots fly in shorts and a T-Shirt from the FBO, CAP for some reason needs Nomex.

Add to that the other 11tybillion that board airliners every year.

That's it, I'm showing up at the gate in nomex. When they ask me... "Just incase this thing crashes, I'll have -> <- that much more chance at surviving the flash so I can help whoever isn't melted to their seat, out the door.. that's why I picked the exit row!"

I bet I'll miss that flight.. and be stamped SSSS next time I go.