I hate to ask this....

[Eclipse]

It is till "common practice".....but it is not "required".....there is a subtle but significant difference in terminology here.

And that's where CAP has the issue - far too many members who won't do anything "hard", "uncomfortable", "different", or just "customary", without a reg forcing them
to do it. 

It is certainly a microcosm for the legalistic / pedantic society that we have become.  Those that argue that the presence of a hat or one's shirt choice somehow
dictates customs and courtesies are front and center of the issue.   The C&C are there to promote team spirit and recognize those who have come before or
are in positions of authority responsibility.

But in this "social" world of "me" coupled with the wholly incorrect idea that all opinions are "equal", apparently a simple salute is too much to ask.

[lordmonar]

Strange that you would say that....as I put you in the school of "if it is not in the regs you can't do it".

I would not go so far as saying that it is a "me" attitude....more like a "that's what I have been told/saw/understand" attitude.

The different services have slightly different C&C.

The Marines would never call some just "sergeant"....they are Gunnery Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Master Sergeant.  The Marines try to take out as optional/should/may out the way they do business as much as they can.

Not saying this is better or worse then the way the anyone else does it.....it is just different.

CAP gets their leaders from a lot of different sources.  Army, Navy, Marines, CG, Police, Full Metal Jacket, The Boys from company C.....Encampment....where they all bring a lot of different ideals of "how it is supposed to be done".

Add to that mix.....CAPTALK and the diverse points of view that we bring to the table......and yes we are going to have a lot of arguments about "it is supposed to be done".

[Eclipse]

Strange that you would say that....as I put you in the school of "if it is not in the regs you can't do it".

I don't think my viewpoints are nearly that clear-cut, especially in regards to something like this.

What I advocate is a return to actually following the regs, and not falling into the trap of "a pamphlet isn't regulatory".
But as we both know, in CAP, if you follow every reg to the letter, in some cases you'll wind up walking, if not in a circle,
at least in a trapezoid.

[Fubar]

But in this "social" world of "me" coupled with the wholly incorrect idea that all opinions are "equal", apparently a simple salute is too much to ask.

Could you expand on this a little? I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, especially the remark about opinions.

[FlyTiger77]

Strange that you would say that....as I put you in the school of "if it is not in the regs you can't do it".

I don't think my viewpoints are nearly that clear-cut, especially in regards to something like this.

I have to agree with Pat here. I seem to recall being brand new to the forum here years ago and having a...hmmmm...discussion...that ran several pages, I might add....with you as to what the word "should" meant in regulatory guidance regarding file retention for transferred members.

But, people change. :

[SpookyDude]

It seems my thread has developed a life of its own and is going way off course...maybe we should end this one and start some new ones....

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

[Private Investigator]

All threads at CAP Talk eventually get back to uniform issues. i.e. the CAP KILT   

[JoeTomasone]

A supply officer in the AF versus an infantry officer in the Marines have had to go through significantly different paths to get to the same rank of Captain. Doesn't mean that one is any better than the other. If an AD person salutes me I return the salute.

Excellent point.    :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Dracosbane]

As a Cadet Flight Officer (butter ball, gold circle, etc) I was walking around an air show when I rounded a corner and turned my head to see an Army enlisted female walking towards me.  She only is able to see my rank on my beret.  Apparently she mistook the flash of gold for a bar and saluted me.  I just returned the salute and kept going.

Now, I surprise military members.  The Col. in charge at our meeting location has met me several times outside the building as he's leaving for the day and I'm coming for our meeting.  I can tell as he comes over to talk that he'd like to shake my hand, and is surprised when I whip out a salute.  I still shake his hand after.

[kd8gua]

So, I'm going to try to bring this topic back around. New 39-1. I really do hope a public draft is released. It would be great to finally get an answer on ABUs, and clarification on all of the gray areas that we often bicker about here. A public draft would help to alleviate the gray areas, because the three or four people on the committee that are writing it can't possibly catch every typo or oversight.

If we switch to ABUs, but leave BDUs as well, let's just standardize both as AF style, and make wear of patches, military badges, and insignia the same for both. The last thing we need are two corporate field uniforms, an AF style, plus the utility jumpsuit. Streamline and consistency!

The argument about the flag patch? That was put in place after I departed as a cadet in 2005. It was instituted by HWSRN. To date, that is the only uniform change (along with wear of grade insignia on the BDU cap for SM and Cadet Officers) that has stuck. The other changes (US Civil Air Patrol tapes, the corporate service uniform, etc) have all been cleaned up.

[Garibaldi]

What are ABUs?

[Eclipse]

What are ABUs?

Something we're not supposed to ask about.

[Brad]

First rule of CAP and ABUs: you don't talk about CAP and ABUs.

[Luis R. Ramos]

ABU...

Reminds me of a song...

ABUUUUUUUUU! Werewolves of London.

ABUUUUUUUUU! Werewolves of London.

Sorry.Killing time before reporting to the NY Wing Encampment tomorrow eve.

Flyer

[ColonelJack]

Reminds me of a song...

ABUUUUUUUUU! Werewolves of London.

ABUUUUUUUUU! Werewolves of London.

You weren't the werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's, were you?

Your hair was perfect.

Jack

[Al Sayre]

When I saw him he had a chinese menu in his hand...

[Shuman 14]

Was that at Lee Ho Fook's?

I hear they have great beef Chow Mein. 

[Critical AOA]

Fook if I know.