SM Decorations!!

[Aj890]

Why are senior members not allowed to wear shoulder cords?!?! I miss wearing my shoulder cord from when I was a cadet! I think that we should be able to wear one in accordance of our duty as a SM. Exp. officers who are in charge of cadet programs should have their own shoulder cord, or officers that are escorts for a drill team of color guard should have the choice of wearing a SM shoulder cord!!

We should have our own decorations just like the cadets do!

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Probably not, but perhaps part of a very small percentage.

[Pylon]

In all likelihood, yes, you may be the only one here on CAPTalk who feels that way. 


Even as a former cadet myself, I don't see the need.  After a little time as a senior member, you'll realize our rewards for all our hard work are often intangible: a letter from a former cadet or his parents crediting you with their success, a SAR find and save, friendships formed, etc.  And any one of these intangible rewards will mean much, much more than any piece of fabric could.

[Flying Pig]

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

Oh Lord, I hope so!!!

[Aj890]

well I am a younger SM and I just think that it would be pretty neat if we got some kind of small recognition of the things we do... I agree with you Pylon! but the 4 years I have been a SM and trust me I have done A LOT of things for my cadets, I just haven't ever seamed to get a thank you... ya know?

[Eclipse]

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

Oh Lord, I hope so!!!

Ditto.  It would be another unnecessary affectation.

If anything we should get rid of the for cadets as well.

well I am a younger SM and I just think that it would be pretty neat if we got some kind of small recognition of the things we do... I agree with you Pylon! but the 4 years I have been a SM and trust me I have done A LOT of things for my cadets, I just haven't ever seamed to get a thank you... ya know?

If you've been reasonably active for 4 years, you should have a fair number of decorations on your rack.  If your rack doesn't include service ribbons for activities like
encampments, sorties, NCSAs, etc., you may not have been as active as you think you have.  With 4 years in you should also be at least a 1st Lt, and have a senior rating in something
which also affords at least one badge and a dec.

Your commanders can also recognize your service with decorations like the Achievement or Comm Comm decs which are common for members serving at the unit level.

[Flying Pig]

There are plenty of tangible forms of recognition in CAP.  I think the specialty track badges that go on your pocket are the same thing.  If you are in cadet programs, you have a CP badge dont you?  Why do you also need a shoulder cord?  A bit redundant.  I wore shoulder cords as a CAP cadet, as an AFJROTC cadet, as a Marine and as an Army infantry soldier.....  Im done with cords!

[AlphaSigOU]

Say no to 'deodorant strings'!

[Luis R. Ramos]

I think that we should be able to wear one in accordance of our duty as a SM.

Why?!!!

Flyer

[FlyTiger77]

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

I believe that if you are not the only one then you are one of a very small minority.

Personally, I don't see the point. YMMV.

[Rick-DEL]

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

Oh Lord, I hope so!!!

Ditto ! I see no need for SM's to wear cords.

[Stonewall]

well I am a younger SM and I just think that it would be pretty neat if we got some kind of small recognition of the things we do... I agree with you Pylon! but the 4 years I have been a SM and trust me I have done A LOT of things for my cadets, I just haven't ever seamed to get a thank you... ya know?

If you're in it for a "thank you", pat on your back, or the cord you wore as a cadet, then you're in the program for the wrong reason.

"And trust you, you've done A LOT of things for your cadets."

In 4 years, I'm sure you have done some good for cadets.  I have been a senior member for 21 years and have also done a lot of things for cadets.  Not just "my cadets", but cadets period.  There are others on here who have done A LOT more than I have, yet none of us seem to be asking for silly decorations to add to our uniforms.

You help out at encampment, you get a ribbon.
You escort during IACE, you get a ribbon.
You recruit cadets, you get a ribbon.
You go to an NCSA, you get a ribbon and a patch you can wear.
You progress through the professional development and you get promoted.
You enroll in the Cadet Programs specialty track and you can earn ribbons and badges.
You get yourself qualified in ES, you get patches and/or badges.

You don't need a cord.  You want one, but you don't need one.  You're not a cadet anymore.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

^ Second.

In JROTC I had two... they suck. (personal opinion)

At the HIWG Encampment last year, we had an SM that personally bought more than a thousand dollars of Encampment T-Shirts with his own funds, and never expected a thank you...
You might try to better embody the leadership value of Selfless Service, it will do you some good. When I started my fourth and final year of JROTC our crusty ol' Sergeant Major gave us the speech that we had taken and learned from the program for three years now, and that this year was our turn to give back. Now, as a Senior Member it's your turn, welcome to it.

[Walkman]

 

We could do blaze orange cords for ground pounders. No, better yet, ANSI green with reflective thread as part of the braid. Maybe with a matching beret?

Aircrew would get white & blue braids.

And for those of us that are dual-qual'd, we wear both!

Sorry, couldn't resist...I shouldn't pick on the new guy. Apologies...

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Hey, at least those ideas had SOME productive use other than ego stroking...   

[Eclipse]

We could weave bright orange paracord  "survival cords"!

[Duke Dillio]

The olive drab ones look better...  JMO....  but we should hang some bullets off of it so instead of a cord you get an aguiliere (sp?)

[sardak]

We could do blaze orange cords for ground pounders. No, better yet, ANSI green with reflective thread as part of the braid.

Do a search on reflective rope or cord. There are plenty of bright colored ones that have a reflective filament woven into them. I have one cord that has both reflective and glow-in-the-dark tracers.

Mike

[Eclipse]

I made one out of black for my watch with a whistle on the buckle.  I like the idea of reflective orange, though.

[Spartan]

Why are senior members not allowed to wear shoulder cords?!?! I miss wearing my shoulder cord from when I was a cadet! I think that we should be able to wear one in accordance of our duty as a SM. Exp. officers who are in charge of cadet programs should have their own shoulder cord, or officers that are escorts for a drill team of color guard should have the choice of wearing a SM shoulder cord!!

We should have our own decorations just like the cadets do!

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

One of the biggest transitions between being a cadet and a senior member was when I realized that being a senior member meant I was getting more intrinsic rewards from CAP than I was extrinsic rewards.  A major part of why we have so many ribbons as part of the cadet program is to provide the cadet with another external (extrinsic) reward as an atta-cadet.  If you got into phase 3 and 4, you probably realized there was a transition from the reward each achievement to rewarding more significant accomplishments.  Part of it fits very well into Skinner's theory of operant conditioning, and the program is built so you will put more work in for that next reward if that is all you are going for.  At the same time, if all you are in CAP for is to be a flare hound, you are missing out on a lot as a senior member.

We senior members get to do a lot that makes the big picture happen.  We get the reward of seeing the newly minted senior member learn, develop and become a better senior member and CAP officer.  We get to mentor cadets and sometimes be mentored by cadets.  It is hoped that these duties will have intrinsic rewards where we get something emotionally, spiritually or mentally from the experience.  Sometimes it is the satisfaction of the dumbfounded look on a cadet's face at how easy the solution to their problem was.  Other times it is the satisfaction of knowing that because you were the personnel officer that kept track of a lot of information, promotions, awards and decorations are presented when they are deserved, strengthening the resolve of those members.

For me, the recognition doesn't matter that much anymore.  I've been doing this in one form or another for almost 15 years.  I am more concerned with getting the job done and getting a thank you, or seeing people get the recognition they deserve than I am with getting another piece of flare for my uniform.

I have well over my minimum recommended 37 pieces of flare, and for the most part, it does not mean that much to me to get something else.  It usually means I have to spend more money for a new ribbon rack, another ribbon, another device and shipping.  Being a large build guy (still within AF height and weight standards) who has difficulty wearing the BDU shirt with rolled sleeves, I found the Infantry cord constricting and very irritating in the Army, as I found the cords I wore as a cadet. 

I for one do not want to wear a cord with my uniform, and would not wear one again if it were an optional uniform item.

[Stonewall]

Why are senior members not allowed to wear shoulder cords?!?! I miss wearing my shoulder cord from when I was a cadet! I think that we should be able to wear one in accordance of our duty as a SM. Exp. officers who are in charge of cadet programs should have their own shoulder cord, or officers that are escorts for a drill team of color guard should have the choice of wearing a SM shoulder cord!!

We should have our own decorations just like the cadets do!

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

AJ, you may want to consider reading this article on wearing CAP uniforms.  Perhaps it'll help put things into perspective for you.  Maybe.

[davedove]

Okay, somebody made suggestions.  Now, when do we get to wear them?

We could do blaze orange cords for ground pounders. No, better yet, ANSI green with reflective thread as part of the braid. Maybe with a matching beret?

Aircrew would get white & blue braids.

And for those of us that are dual-qual'd, we wear both!

Sorry, couldn't resist...I shouldn't pick on the new guy. Apologies...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I wore them as a Cub Scout decades ago.  I do not need to wear them again.

In the Air Force, I think that certain types of instructors within AETC wear them, but I am unsure as to which ones.

My dad wore a blue Infantry shoulder cord and was quite proud of it.  He also wore a "red and green cord with little cords dangling from it with firehose nozzles on the end" (his description), but it was a gift from the Belgian Government (his division, the 4th Armored, was instrumental in freeing Belgium) but he had to give that back when he got out of the Army.


(I think this is it)

I also see them in this context as an unnecessary affectation.

[Critical AOA]

To be truthful, I don't even see the need for a cadet to wear a cord.

[Nuke52]

Why are senior members not allowed to wear shoulder cords?!?! I miss wearing my shoulder cord from when I was a cadet! I think that we should be able to wear one in accordance of our duty as a SM. Exp. officers who are in charge of cadet programs should have their own shoulder cord, or officers that are escorts for a drill team of color guard should have the choice of wearing a SM shoulder cord!!

We should have our own decorations just like the cadets do!

Am I the only one who feels this way?!?!

well I am a younger SM and I just think that it would be pretty neat if we got some kind of small recognition of the things we do... I agree with you Pylon! but the 4 years I have been a SM and trust me I have done A LOT of things for my cadets, I just haven't ever seamed to get a thank you... ya know?

Am I the only one whose Bravo Sierra meter is pinging--even just a little? 

Someone who's been a senior member for four years is at least 22.  How many 22-year-olds (or older, or younger, or anyone, for that matter) would really say, "I just think that it would be pretty neat if..."?  And, seriously, this much, umm, exuberance from an adult for being able to wear a shoulder cord like the cadets?  I dunno know, it just smells a little off to me.  Perhaps a bit like troll?  "ya know?"

[Nuke52]

Oh, and by the way, I don't have a problem with cadets wearing (authorized) cords.  They're cadets; it's not a big deal.  CAC, drill team, color guard, cadet of the month, whatever...  As long as it's authorized in the regs and duly approved by your commander, knock yourself out.

I wore the various CAC cords WIWAC and wore a drill team/Pershing Rifles cord in ROTC and somehow I still managed to cross into a reasonable facsimile of adulthood (though some who know me might disagree--like my wife).  In any case, I have the bills to prove it.

[Eclipse]

Someone who's been a senior member for four years is at least 22.  How many 22-year-olds (or older, or younger, or anyone, for that matter) would really say, "I just think that it would be pretty neat if..."?  And, seriously, this much, umm, exuberance from an adult for being able to wear a shoulder cord like the cadets?  I dunno know, it just smells a little off to me.  Perhaps a bit like troll?  "ya know?"

Actually far too many.

As to adults wearing cords.   In addition to the occasional misguided senior member posting colors and wearing HGA accouterments, you may recall a
few years ago HWSRN had his own "Praetorian Guard" wearing enough cordage to rappel out a window.

[Al Sayre]

SM's have their own versions of cords:  When you make major, you get a stripe on your epaulette sleeves along with  farts and darts on your flat hat.  Commanders get pins, Board Shields for Col's, an extra stripe and more farts and darts for Generals.  Those of us who are Admirals of the Great Navy of the State of Nebraska get a cool "Fore and Aft"  hat with fringe and a plume!... 

[ProdigalJim]

A "Praetorian Guard"? Seriously? I'm glad I hadn't come back in yet...I might have quit.

Does any photographic proof of that crime exist? I'd love to see it.

[NCRblues]

A "Praetorian Guard"? Seriously? I'm glad I hadn't come back in yet...I might have quit.

Does any photographic proof of that crime exist? I'd love to see it.

He had 3 aides that actually wore the "generals aide" device for the AF. In fact, there used to be pictures of one of his congressional days with all 3 aides wearing the devices and accompanying aide de camp cords. Alll 3 aides were CAP Majors and traveled with him to all his functions ( like NBB 06 for example) and summon people to come see him.

[Nuke52]

Someone who's been a senior member for four years is at least 22.  How many 22-year-olds (or older, or younger, or anyone, for that matter) would really say, "I just think that it would be pretty neat if..."?  And, seriously, this much, umm, exuberance from an adult for being able to wear a shoulder cord like the cadets?  I dunno know, it just smells a little off to me.  Perhaps a bit like troll?  "ya know?"

Actually far too many.

As to adults wearing cords.   In addition to the occasional misguided senior member posting colors and wearing HGA accouterments, you may recall a
few years ago HWSRN had his own "Praetorian Guard" wearing enough cordage to rappel out a window.

I guess...  Unless it was followed by the words "and tidy," I don't think I've used the word "neat" with anyone beside my five-year-old since the 1980s.

Yes, I do remember "him" and "that."  Good thing you didn't say his name or you'd owe us all beer!  But that somewhat confirms my point:  anyone that into cords is (at least) just a bit off and it pings my meter.

[GroundHawg]

Back in the day any graduate of Pathfinder, Senior or Cadet was awarded a blaze orange shoulder cord for wear on the blues. I still think it looks sharp.

If I recall, I think that HMRS Staff wore an orange cord on their blues as well.

We used to use different cords to signify staff positions within our squadron, had a little chart in our SOP binder that all new member recieved when they joined. 

Again, I think it should be up to the individual wing commanders to make the choice to allow seniors to wear cords or not. I know lots on here think they are stupid (I wore 3 cords at one time on active duty and THAT looked stupid), but I think all the specialty badges are gaudy and un-needed and you know what they say about opinons....

[spaatzmom]

A "Praetorian Guard"? Seriously? I'm glad I hadn't come back in yet...I might have quit.

Does any photographic proof of that crime exist? I'd love to see it.

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/media/cms/CAP_Volunteer_MayJun_07_lorespdf_325FE1C41A548.pdf      page 9

[Private Investigator]

Why are senior members not allowed to wear shoulder cords?

It is called, "soap on a rope" and it is just what you need if you ever spend time in the county jail.

BTW, welcome to CT and enjoy. YMMV   

[ColonelJack]

SM's have their own versions of cords:  When you make major, you get a stripe on your epaulette sleeves along with  farts and darts on your flat hat.  Commanders get pins, Board Shields for Col's, an extra stripe and more farts and darts for Generals.  Those of us who are Admirals of the Great Navy of the State of Nebraska get a cool "Fore and Aft"  hat with fringe and a plume!... 

As CAPTalk Fleet Admiral, I get two plumes on my Fore and Aft!   

Jack

[ColonelJack]

I can't find the link, but I distinctly recall seeing pictures of the "aide to a major general" pin that was worn by those who served HWSRN.  It was a specially-made variation of the AF's aide insignia, with the CAP propeller emblem in the center.

I wish I could find that picture ...

Jack

[Rick-DEL]

AJ, you may want to consider reading this article on wearing CAP uniforms.  Perhaps it'll help put things into perspective for you.  Maybe.

Great article !!!

[J2H]

AF Military Training Leaders wear blue ropes, Senior Military Training Instructors (the "Blue Rope TIs") wear blue ropes, and the "Church/Chapel Guides" wear white (tech training students).  Flight leaders wear red, yellow, and green based on seniority

[Flying Pig]

http://www.6thmarines.marines.mil/Units/2ndBattalion/History/Fourragere.aspx

I did enjoy wearing the French Fourragere when I was with the 6th Marines.  It was a unit award, and once you leave the unit you are not authorized to wear it anymore.  In the case of the 5th and 6th Marine Regiments who are authorized to wear it, it is a visual reminder of the heritage of the unit.  But in reality, in the infantry we rarely wore our Alphas or our Dress Blues, which are the only two uniforms that it is authorized for wear on. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

How many 22-year-olds (or older, or younger, or anyone, for that matter) would really say, "I just think that it would be pretty neat if..."?

I had a buddy growing up (who later went on to turn wrenches on A-10's at Davis Monthan AFB) who was a man of very few words.  If he liked something, he would say "NEAT!" in a loud voice.  If he didn't like something, his response would be "SUCK!"  Hilarious.

Senior Military Training Instructors (the "Blue Rope TIs") wear blue ropes

On the hat, as modelled here by current Senior Training Instructor at Lackland AFB, CMSgt Kenneth Williams.



...and by CMSgt Steve Sergeant (Sergeant Sergeant )



The men and women who become Blue Ropes have usually moved Heaven and Earth with hard graft to earn it.

http://usafmtia.org/Instructors/BlueRopeMTIs/index.html

I know whenever I've encountered one personally, my heart drops into my boots.  If they can find something to gig you on, they WILL, and 99.9% of the time, they are correct.

[Flying Pig]

A "blue rope" huh?   .............  I actually chuckled when the picture popped up.  Im sorry.... I just cant take it seriously.  I cant imagine someone actually thought a light blue cord around a smokey was a good idea.

[Luis R. Ramos]

FP-

What is not a good idea, and why?

The blue cord itself around the smokey, or the cord around it?

I think you are previous service, so I do not have to remind you that the Smokey was worn by the US Army as Campaign Hat from at least 1912 until 1940. I may be wrong but I believe that servicemen started wearing a cord of their Branch of Service color around it in the 1920's...

Silly? A Red cord for Artillery fades to Pink with exposure to the elements...

Flyer

[Flying Pig]

FP-

What is not a good idea, and why?

The blue cord itself around the smokey, or the cord around it?

I think you are previous service, so I do not have to remind you that the Smokey was worn by the US Army as Campaign Hat from at least 1912 until 1940. I may be wrong but I believe that servicemen started wearing a cord of their Branch of Service color around it in the 1920's...

Silly? A Red cord for Artillery fades to Pink with exposure to the elements...

Flyer

Im prior service Marine and Army infantry.  The smokey is fine.  The light blue decorative thingy wrapped around it looks out of place and a little funny.  I had the same reaction when I saw the AF uniforms with choker collar recently. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Im prior service Marine and Army infantry.  The smokey is fine.  The light blue decorative thingy wrapped around it looks out of place and a little funny.  I had the same reaction when I saw the AF uniforms with choker collar recently.

All the same, I wouldn't be the one to tell a BR that his/her blue-roped smokey "looks funny."  You can if you want to.



Guess the Marines, Navy and CG (not to mention countless overseas navies) have dibs on the choker collars, hm?

Although the Army in WWI had theirs, of course...this is the kind my grandfather wore when he was in the Army before WWI...

[Flying Pig]

I wouldnt have an issue telling an Air Force instructor I thought their blue cord looked goofy.  Sorry, Air Force Basic hardly has an intimidating reputation.  Of course.... you are talking to the same guy who was asked to leave a Coast Guard chow hall for telling a Coast Guard drill instructor at OCS (whatever they call them) to get the $%^& out of my way    I left with a smile on my face and a skip in my step. 
The other services have a historical background for those uniforms that date back 100+ years. Deciding you want one in 2011 is hardly built on the same foundation.

[Storm Chaser]

In the Air Force, only certain enlisted personnel can wear shoulder cords. Most of them, with the exception of Honor Guards and Color Guards, are in Air Education and Training Command (AETC). Even the commander of a training squadron (TRS), usually a Maj or Lt Col, does not wear a "rope" even though his Military Training Leaders, Student Leaders, etc. may wear one.

In CAP, certain cadets can wear shoulder cords (just like certain enlisted in the Air Force) and senior members cannot (just like commissioned officers in the Air Force). Regardless of whether you think they look "neat" or not, more "recognition" is just not a good enough reason for them.

Believe me; CAP senior members get to wear far more decorations and patches in their uniforms than their counterpart Air Force officers.

[ol'fido]

AF Military Training Leaders wear blue ropes, Senior Military Training Instructors (the "Blue Rope TIs") wear blue ropes, and the "Church/Chapel Guides" wear white (tech training students).  Flight leaders wear red, yellow, and green based on seniority

When I went to the Corrections Academy in Springfield, the cadet leaders wore different colored cords based on their positions. In my forty man platoon(they actually called it a squad... whatever but..??) everyone but the six females were military vets. The academy cadre literally had to beg someone to take the platoon leader's job. He was retired Army and pretty cool about everything. So except for him, the rest of the cadet leaders were known as "DOPES ON ROPES".

[Hawk200]

I used to think cords were a cool idea, but got over the idea after a few years. Got enough stuff already, but I haven't really seen the need for any kind of cord to signify anything really out of the ordinary. Honor/Color Guard, I could consider that something, but for everyone else, I don't see the need.

[Private Investigator]

http://www.6thmarines.marines.mil/Units/2ndBattalion/History/Fourragere.aspx

I did enjoy wearing the French Fourragere when I was with the 6th Marines.  It was a unit award, and once you leave the unit you are not authorized to wear it anymore.  In the case of the 5th and 6th Marine Regiments who are authorized to wear it, it is a visual reminder of the heritage of the unit.  But in reality, in the infantry we rarely wore our Alphas or our Dress Blues, which are the only two uniforms that it is authorized for wear on.

I was 0311 and 5811. I wore my uniform frequently off duty. I was a Marine 24/7 so why not. In the greater Jacksonville or Oceanside area it is obvious your a Marine.   

[Flying Pig]

When were you in?  I was in from 93-2000.  NOBODY wore their uniforms off duty.  Of course in North Carolina, being a Marine didnt impress anyone either

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Yeah, I have to second that ^, I was out of Kaneohe and everybody was afraid of getting body slammed by Samoans... 

Don't think I ever once went off base in uniform, except to the drive through while on duty once.

[Flying Pig]

You could be 200 miles from Camp Lejuene and try to whip out your best line on some girl and she responds back, "Yeah....My dad is 1st Sgt Smith from 2nd Force Recon."   

[The Infamous Meerkat]

HAHAHAHA, ohhh man, so true.

I guess there was one good thing, we had all four branches on Oahu, so you had at least a 25% chance of the girls being related to military OTHER than Marines, so we were still pretty awesome. 

[Rick-DEL]

Yeah, I have to second that ^, I was out of Kaneohe and everybody was afraid of getting body slammed by Samoans... 

Don't think I ever once went off base in uniform, except to the drive through while on duty once.

"Stay east of the Waianae Wall". That was one of my first safety briefs by my First Shirt when I arrived a Wheeler AFB as a scrawny 19 year old. I once ventured into the unknown....once. Whole different world on that side of the island for sure.

[JoeTomasone]

WOW, a thread drifted OFF uniforms!   

[Rick-DEL]

WOW, a thread drifted OFF uniforms!   

Shall I mention the rumor of CAP going to ABU's?

Just kidding, seriously. Just kidding !!! 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

"Stay east of the Waianae Wall". That was one of my first safety briefs by my First Shirt when I arrived a Wheeler AFB as a scrawny 19 year old. I once ventured into the unknown....once. Whole different world on that side of the island for sure.

When my dad went to West Germany, one of the first briefs his First Sergeant gave him was to stay out of the old part of Nürnberg because supposedly there was still a cluster of ex-Nazis there.

So guess where dad and some of his buddies went on their first pass?

[ol'fido]

Yeah, I have to second that ^, I was out of Kaneohe and everybody was afraid of getting body slammed by Samoans... 

Don't think I ever once went off base in uniform, except to the drive through while on duty once.

Yeah, it was always fun to be on the ARMY bus that left Ft.DeRussy at 0030 on Sunday morning going back to Schofield and then pulling up to the post theater about 0115 and hearing some slurred voice at the back of the bus call out "Are we at K-Bay yet?"

[a2capt]

LOL.. and that's not a short hop either. Someone had a little too much.. ;-)

[Flying Pig]

WOW, a thread drifted OFF uniforms!   

Aer you kidding??!!  This information is a gold mine to some cadet getting ready to ship out!

[Cliff_Chambliss]

"Stay east of the Waianae Wall". That was one of my first safety briefs by my First Shirt when I arrived a Wheeler AFB as a scrawny 19 year old. I once ventured into the unknown....once. Whole different world on that side of the island for sure.

When my dad went to West Germany, one of the first briefs his First Sergeant gave him was to stay out of the old part of Nürnberg because supposedly there was still a cluster of ex-Nazis there.

So guess where dad and some of his buddies went on their first pass?

I was stationed in Nuremburg with the 2d Armored Cavalry Regiment during the early 1970's.  It was during this period The Regiment first began wearing the black beret and partnered with a German Armored unit.  Several of us, US and German, were at a local biergarten and ran into a bunch of German WWII Tankers.  Friendly guys, after several beers all Panzer Troupen were Ok.  Roosevelt and Churchill were wrong, the US and English Panzers should have helped beat Stalin.  A very interesting time.  Over the next couple of years we developed a real friendship with these old guys and we stayed in touch until the last of them passed on a couple years ago.  We (my family and I) really enjoyed our time in Germany Nuremburg, Heilbronn, Wurzburg, and Feucht and we left many good friends back there. Next year we will be returning to Germany but many of the old bases have Been closed and converted to other uses. 

[ol'fido]

LOL.. and that's not a short hop either. Someone had a little too much.. ;-)

Yeah, and TheBus stopped running at about 2230. Let's hope he had enough singles left over from one of the strip joints on Keaomoku Street, Moose's. or Studebakers to get a cab ride. My two favorite joints down in the "ki's" were the Rose&Crown and the Jolly Roger's Crow's Nest. The Nest was on the main drag Kalakaua(?) and the R&C was around the corner from the International Market Place. I used to go down to the Rose & Crown because they had a piano player on Saturday nights who would play karaoke style tunes and everyone would stand around the piano and sing as a group. Then I would head up to the Crow's Nest and listen to a couple of guys who sang old bawdy songs and told jokes in between. The later it went the more "adult" the show became. The show at 2300 was known as the "Crusty" show. the 0100 show was simply called "Smut".

[PHall]

LOL.. and that's not a short hop either. Someone had a little too much.. ;-)

Yeah, and TheBus stopped running at about 2230. Let's hope he had enough singles left over from one of the strip joints on Keaomoku Street, Moose's. or Studebakers to get a cab ride. My two favorite joints down in the "ki's" were the Rose&Crown and the Jolly Roger's Crow's Nest. The Nest was on the main drag Kalakaua(?) and the R&C was around the corner from the International Market Place. I used to go down to the Rose & Crown because they had a piano player on Saturday nights who would play karaoke style tunes and everyone would stand around the piano and sing as a group. Then I would head up to the Crow's Nest and listen to a couple of guys who sang old bawdy songs and told jokes in between. The later it went the more "adult" the show became. The show at 2300 was known as the "Crusty" show. the 0100 show was simply called "Smut".

And don't stand in front of the dart boards at the Rose and Crown. It will be a painful experience!

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Haha, the Waikiki bars were an endless source of entertainment, but our Marines usually hung out at Coconut Willy's, Mooses, The Red Lion or Kelley O'Neils. Live bands and cheap drinks, it's all most of our barracks apes could afford.

[BGNightfall]

I wouldnt have an issue telling an Air Force instructor I thought their blue cord looked goofy.  Sorry, Air Force Basic hardly has an intimidating reputation.  Of course.... you are talking to the same guy who was asked to leave a Coast Guard chow hall for telling a Coast Guard drill instructor at OCS (whatever they call them) to get the $%^& out of my way    I left with a smile on my face and a skip in my step. 
The other services have a historical background for those uniforms that date back 100+ years. Deciding you want one in 2011 is hardly built on the same foundation.

So, I didn't encounter "ropes" until I washed up at the Defense Language Institute and encountered an Air Force MTI yelling at some poor dope who was on his way to chow about something called "pocket rockets" .  Apparently my Air Force compatriots didn't have enough else to do, so they had to worry about how their cheap name tapes shrunk and puckered their shirts.  So, I made a comment to that effect, which drew this SSgt's ire on to me.  "Gimme yer 341!", "Wazzat, Sergeant?", "It's the form yer suppost to carry in yer pocket at all times.  Who's yer red rope?" Now, at this stage, the only red ropes I'd had were my RDCs at Great Lakes, so I hesitated for a moment, then scribbled down my senior RDCs name, and the duty phone number.  That sergeant cut a wide berth around me the next time I saw him.

[Flying Pig]

I wouldnt have an issue telling an Air Force instructor I thought their blue cord looked goofy.  Sorry, Air Force Basic hardly has an intimidating reputation.  Of course.... you are talking to the same guy who was asked to leave a Coast Guard chow hall for telling a Coast Guard drill instructor at OCS (whatever they call them) to get the $%^& out of my way    I left with a smile on my face and a skip in my step. 
The other services have a historical background for those uniforms that date back 100+ years. Deciding you want one in 2011 is hardly built on the same foundation.

So, I didn't encounter "ropes" until I washed up at the Defense Language Institute and encountered an Air Force MTI yelling at some poor dope who was on his way to chow about something called "pocket rockets" .  Apparently my Air Force compatriots didn't have enough else to do, so they had to worry about how their cheap name tapes shrunk and puckered their shirts.  So, I made a comment to that effect, which drew this SSgt's ire on to me.  "Gimme yer 341!", "Wazzat, Sergeant?", "It's the form yer suppost to carry in yer pocket at all times.  Who's yer red rope?" Now, at this stage, the only red ropes I'd had were my RDCs at Great Lakes, so I hesitated for a moment, then scribbled down my senior RDCs name, and the duty phone number.  That sergeant cut a wide berth around me the next time I saw him.

My encounter with my coast guard guy was him stepping in front of me as I was walking to the soda fountain in the chow hall. He says "Stand By Marine, (as he puts his hand up) my people are in the chow line."   So I say, "Im just refilling my soda"  It wasnt even like I jumped in the middle.... people were just milling around.  He comes back with "After my candidates are all through the line"    I say "How about you get the ---- out of my way?"   He was a CG E5 and I was a Marine E5... fair is fair.   So he steps aside, or more like he just walked away a few feet.  I get my refill and go back to the table.   About 10 minutes later a CG Chief comes over and asks if I was the person who had an issue.  I say "No Chief not at all but your instructor over there doesnt need to use me to try and look like a tough guy in front of his people and as a Sergeant since when do I dont take a back seat to recruits?" 

He says "Understood Sergeant, but Im going to have to ask you to leave the facility since you are done eating.  I say "Aye Aye Chief"  and off I went.   So the instructor gets it broken off where the sun dont shine and runs to daddy..... copy that tough guy  

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Hahahaha! very well played.   I had this fatuous gasbag of an Air Force Major (who had an obvious eating problem, or lack of PT issue...) go on a tirade about me not pulling the slide on my M9 ALLLLL the way to the rear when clearing it at the chowhall on Camp Bastion. Funny thing was he had obviously never had a holster on or about his perfectly clean cammies, so I took his comment in stride.

I leant over towards the clearing barrel, racked the slide and locked it, turned the barrel towards my face and checked the chamber with light from my thumbnail while looking down the barrel. I told him, "it looks pretty clear to me, Sir, but I'm not sure." Then I held it out to him, "care to make sure, Sir?" 

He wasn't impressed. My buddies behind him we trying not to laugh. I was okay with him hollering a bit more, so I didn't mind... 
My dumber days got me in a tiny bit of trouble now and again. Luckily that time all Gunny said was to quit messing with the the Air Force.

[a2capt]

I say "Aye Aye Chief"  and off I went.

Very well played .. Leave when you're done. Well, you certainly were not going to stay, right? Too funny.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah that more or less told me the Chief was just trying to support his guy in some manner.  No problem.  Funny I havnt thought about that in years.  I was probably 21-22yrs old.  The CG E5, (Petty Officer 2nd Class, 2 striper)  was easily in his 30s.

[ol'fido]

Haha, the Waikiki bars were an endless source of entertainment, but our Marines usually hung out at Coconut Willy's, Mooses, The Red Lion or Kelley O'Neils. Live bands and cheap drinks, it's all most of our barracks apes could afford.

Had a buddy almost get jacked by HPD at the Red Lion.

[ol'fido]

LOL.. and that's not a short hop either. Someone had a little too much.. ;-)

Yeah, and TheBus stopped running at about 2230. Let's hope he had enough singles left over from one of the strip joints on Keaomoku Street, Moose's. or Studebakers to get a cab ride. My two favorite joints down in the "ki's" were the Rose&Crown and the Jolly Roger's Crow's Nest. The Nest was on the main drag Kalakaua(?) and the R&C was around the corner from the International Market Place. I used to go down to the Rose & Crown because they had a piano player on Saturday nights who would play karaoke style tunes and everyone would stand around the piano and sing as a group. Then I would head up to the Crow's Nest and listen to a couple of guys who sang old bawdy songs and told jokes in between. The later it went the more "adult" the show became. The show at 2300 was known as the "Crusty" show. the 0100 show was simply called "Smut".

And don't stand in front of the dart boards at the Rose and Crown. It will be a painful experience!

I've still got my dart set somewhere.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So, I didn't encounter "ropes" until I washed up at the Defense Language Institute and encountered an Air Force MTI yelling at some poor dope who was on his way to chow about something called "pocket rockets" .  Apparently my Air Force compatriots didn't have enough else to do, so they had to worry about how their cheap name tapes shrunk and puckered their shirts.  So, I made a comment to that effect, which drew this SSgt's ire on to me.  "Gimme yer 341!", "Wazzat, Sergeant?", "It's the form yer suppost to carry in yer pocket at all times.  Who's yer red rope?" Now, at this stage, the only red ropes I'd had were my RDCs at Great Lakes, so I hesitated for a moment, then scribbled down my senior RDCs name, and the duty phone number.  That sergeant cut a wide berth around me the next time I saw him.

Pocket rocket:


Awarded for various criteria at varying times in USAF.  I remember seeing a retired Vietnam Air Force vet's service dress and he had one.  I said "I never knew you put in time with SAC in a missile silo."  He said, "I didn't.  I got this for hanging Sidewinders and Sparrows on F-4's at Korat."

That MTI must have been a couple short of a sixpack if he expected a Navy guy to be carrying a 341.

You probably (rightly) embarrassed the heck out of him, first because he didn't intimidate you (MTI's thrive on intimidation, or attempts thereof) and second because he knew he was in the wrong, which is why he gave you a wide berth from then on.

[Private Investigator]

When were you in?  I was in from 93-2000.  NOBODY wore their uniforms off duty.  Of course in North Carolina, being a Marine didnt impress anyone either

1976-1982. Growing up outside Camp Pendleton when we have HS football practice it was not unusual to see men in uniform. One of our star track member's dad was CO of MCRD. Actually we had the children of a few Generals as classmates. And of course Colonels, Majors, Captains and Staff NCOs.

WWII and Korean era Veterans are much different from lets say Desert Storm and forward, Veterans. Some Marines are MARINES and others just left an impression on their bunks. Just like police work. Some cops are COPS and the other 80% are civil servants.

[Private Investigator]

You could be 200 miles from Camp Lejuene and try to whip out your best line on some girl and she responds back, "Yeah....My dad is 1st Sgt Smith from 2nd Force Recon."   

BTDT ... Head Cheerleader Jacksonville HS nobody was brave enough to ask her out except for 'iyo tunay'   

[Private Investigator]

WOW, a thread drifted OFF uniforms!   

Aer you kidding??!!  This information is a gold mine to some cadet getting ready to ship out!

I agree. I think every Cadet should talk to me. My grandfather was one of the WWI Veterans who started the American Legion in Paris 1919. My father, me and my children are all members.   

[PHall]

So, I didn't encounter "ropes" until I washed up at the Defense Language Institute and encountered an Air Force MTI yelling at some poor dope who was on his way to chow about something called "pocket rockets" .  Apparently my Air Force compatriots didn't have enough else to do, so they had to worry about how their cheap name tapes shrunk and puckered their shirts.  So, I made a comment to that effect, which drew this SSgt's ire on to me.  "Gimme yer 341!", "Wazzat, Sergeant?", "It's the form yer suppost to carry in yer pocket at all times.  Who's yer red rope?" Now, at this stage, the only red ropes I'd had were my RDCs at Great Lakes, so I hesitated for a moment, then scribbled down my senior RDCs name, and the duty phone number.  That sergeant cut a wide berth around me the next time I saw him.

Pocket rocket:


Awarded for various criteria at varying times in USAF.  I remember seeing a retired Vietnam Air Force vet's service dress and he had one.  I said "I never knew you put in time with SAC in a missile silo."  He said, "I didn't.  I got this for hanging Sidewinders and Sparrows on F-4's at Korat."

That MTI must have been a couple short of a sixpack if he expected a Navy guy to be carrying a 341.

You probably (rightly) embarrassed the heck out of him, first because he didn't intimidate you (MTI's thrive on intimidation, or attempts thereof) and second because he knew he was in the wrong, which is why he gave you a wide berth from then on.

I was awarded the pocket rocket for about six months, then they took it away.

I was a Boom Operator on the SAC Airborne Command Post, aka "Looking Glass" at the time. As part of the Flight Crew up front I helped copy and decode Emergency Action Messages.
One of the missions the Glass had was to function as a Airborne Launch Control Center if the LCC's were destroyed.

Somebody up at Bldg 500 at Offutt (SAC HQTRS) decided that anybody who was involved  in any way with launching the ICBM's was entitled to wear the "Pocket Rocket".
This resulted in all of the Flight Crew up front and the Communications Operators in the middle of the jet being awarded the "Pocket Rocket".

The Coneheads put up such a howl about this that the rules were changed back to what they were before.

Didn't bother me much but it did cost my unit (2nd ACCS) about $600 to buy everybody new cloth nametags for their flight suits.
Which we then had to stop wearing a few months later.