Honorable Service Ribbon Initiative

[RiverAux]

I think he was talking about actual Coast Guard awards earned by members of the CG Auxiliary and the fact that the CAP uniform and award regulations differ on whether or not they are allowed on CAP uniforms.

[flyboy53]

You guys are splitting hairs.

First to JohnKachenmeister, although your prior military service may not allow you to be eligible for an active duty Good Conduct Medal, your combined enlisted/commissioned service in the NG may entitle you to the Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal. Like the Air Force Reserve's Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal, these awards are actually Good Conduct Medals awarded to Reserve Forces. The Air Force Reserve Allows a commissioned officer to earn one if there was a change of status (from enlisted) after one year. Under the same criteria, you can earn the medal or a device if there is a change in status, i.e, called to active duty after one year. I believe the NG and Army Reseve allow the same. I'd check with your state NG Headquarters.

You are also entitled to wear what used to be the coveted Armed Forces Reserve Medal with hourglass device. I have one with a "M" device as well. Only members of the Organized Reserve, National Guard, Organized State Militia have the opportunity to earn this medal. The only other ones who are entitled to this medal are Reserve-commissioned officers or Reservists on extended active duty.

That said, the one thing you guys are missing in this string is that there are FEDERAL awards given even to the NG that continue to be worn if that individual goes on active duty.

I can understand NHQ's stand about the state-specific NG awards because the same rule is being applied to us that would be applied to a National Guardsman/woman on active duty...please don't mince words like, "we're not on active duty." We are, however, federally funded and Congressionally chartered.

The same thing applies to a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary. I don't believe the Coast Guard Auxiliary allows state awards, either. The way they are organized, they get to qualify for FEDERAL awards where we do not and that's too bad, because I think that would be kind of neat if the opportunity was presented.

One other thing, if one of you is fortunate enough to earn a DoD Civilian Decoration, the award criteria was set a long time ago by the Air Force, and it is the Air Force that permits the wearing of such awards and decorations on a military uniform. This is not because of DoD Civilian Awards, although they are included, but more to recognize those holders of things like the Medal of Freedom or anything presented by NASA, the U.S. Public Health Service or NOAA.

It is this same hair splitting that causes grave mis-representations of CAP and Air Force Regulations and causes uninformed individuals to pass judgement on others and tell them, in direct violation of the regulations, that certain medals, especially combat-related, can't be worn.

[Hawk200]

One other thing, if one of you is fortunate enough to earn a DoD Civilian Decoration, the award criteria was set a long time ago by the Air Force, and it is the Air Force that permits the wearing of such awards and decorations on a military uniform. This is not because of DoD Civilian Awards, although they are included, but more to recognize those holders of things like the Medal of Freedom or anything presented by NASA, the U.S. Public Health Service or NOAA.

It is this same hair splitting that causes grave mis-representations of CAP and Air Force Regulations and causes uninformed individuals to pass judgement on others and tell them, in direct violation of the regulations, that certain medals, especially combat-related, can't be worn.

The state decs used to be authorized. They were dropped from the most recent pub. No explanation given, they just disappeared.

However, I don't think foreign decs should be authorized when there are decs from this country that aren't permitted. That's screwy. The pubs contradict themselves, in that it says "awarded in writing by competent military authority", but then goes to listing and denying anything on the list. Last I checked, my chain of command in the Guard was certainly "competent military authority." They've met the same requirements.

As for military awards/decs/badges on the corporates, I don't think it would take much to send each uniformed service a letter requesting authorization. Add copies of the approval letter from each to the 39-1 as an appendix, and be done with it. I seriously doubt that it would be declined, but no one will ever know unless they ask.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I do rate the Army Reserve Components Achievement medal w/ 2 OLC's.  I wish you wouldn't compare it to the Good Conduct Medal.  It might ruin my carefully-crafted bad-boy image.  Chicks dig bad boys.  I also have the Armed Forces Reserve Medal (10 years of being the Christmas Help) with a 20-year hourglass and an "M" device.  My unit was mobilized, but the war ended before we got there, so they laid us back off.

The problem with the NLO isn't confusion as to what can be worn, it's animosity.  He is of the opinion that, since CAP is a "Non-combat" organization, that combat vets are not welcome, and if some of us do, in fact, slither into CAP, we should conceal our status by being prohibited from wearing our awards.

In the case of the TPU, he weighed in that military awards should continue to be prohibited.  He hasn't won the fight yet on the USAF uniform.  He said wearing combat awards was "Inappropriate" for CAP members.

As far as I am concerned, he is the south end of a northbound horse.

[davidsinn]

As far as I am concerned, he is the south end of a northbound horse.

You are way too kind, sir.

[Hawk200]

As far as I am concerned, he is the south end of a northbound horse.

You are way too kind, sir.

Second.

I get a kick out if though. Many people joined CAP because they couldn't go in the military.

[davidsinn]

As far as I am concerned, he is the south end of a northbound horse.

You are way too kind, sir.

Second.

I get a kick out if though. Many people joined CAP because they couldn't go in the military.

Guilty. Medical DQ.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My gripe about it is that foreign awards are permitted

When did that change?

I was in a squadron that had a retired RCAF French-Canadian F-5 driver with I don't know how many hours who'd moved Stateside to fly for United.

He could not wear his Canadian ribbons.

All he could wear was the metal version of his Canadian pilot's wings over his right pocket and nameplate, and (I think) the cloth version on his service coat right breast.






Of course, this was over 10 years ago.

[Major Carrales]

I don't support the notion of rivalries between "Prior Service" versus "Non-Prior Service," it takes away from the Mission.  We will honor the service of both.

[flyboy53]

The problem with the NLO isn't confusion as to what can be worn, it's animosity.  He is of the opinion that, since CAP is a "Non-combat" organization, that combat vets are not welcome, and if some of us do, in fact, slither into CAP, we should conceal our status by being prohibited from wearing our awards.

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is NLO? I suppose he would want to re-write our WW II history and ignore the 800 Air Medals....wonder what those recipients would call him?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Foreigh awards earned while a member of the US military can be worn, although the regulations are confused as to their precedence.  Foreign awards earned as a member of a foreign military can be worn with approval of NHQ.

I do not think NHQ would have a problem with Canadian awards, but back in the day they might have had a cow over an ex-Luftwaffe pilot wearing a Knight's Cross.

Today, I don't think there would be a problem, since nobody knows what the Knight's Cross is.  Or what the Luftwaffe is.

Or... anything about World War II except that it likely followed World War I.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The problem with the NLO isn't confusion as to what can be worn, it's animosity.  He is of the opinion that, since CAP is a "Non-combat" organization, that combat vets are not welcome, and if some of us do, in fact, slither into CAP, we should conceal our status by being prohibited from wearing our awards.

Pardon my ignorance, but who or what is NLO? I suppose he would want to re-write our WW II history and ignore the 800 Air Medals....wonder what those recipients would call him?

National Legal Officer

[JohnKachenmeister]

And the NLO probably doesn't even KNOW our history.

[JayT]

Note to NLO, if you are lurking:

"Inappropriate" is when you get drunk at the O-club and put the moves on another officer's wife.  (BTDT, got the counseling statement in my file).

"Inappropriate" is when you are in a general staff meeting and you release some rotten flatulence in an overcrowded conference room.  (BTDT, but I loudly blamed a major who I didn't like.  He was napping and I think I even convinced him that he was guilty).

"Inappropriate" is what the Staff Duty Officer called it when he came into the all-ranks club as I was teaching some enlisted guys some rowdy jody calls and beer-drinking songs.  (BTDT, but it WAS an all-ranks club, so nothing hit paper).

BUT... Wearing your earned combat awards is NOT inappropriate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blasting a national level staff officer. Check.

Telling a juvie level 'fart' joke. Check.

Telling two stories about  getting drunk, one of them involving taking a pass at another officers wife. Check.

Any other lessons you would like to teach cadets on this board?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Whatever the reason, this RCAF guy couldn't wear any of his ribbons.

The Luftwaffe example you cite...maybe he could have worn the later version of his Ritterkreuz.  In 1957 all Wehrmacht awards/qualification badges were reissued without the swastika.





However, I have heard of cases where WWII Luftwaffe veterans being trained postwar by the RAF, USAF, and RCAF were ordered to remove their decorations.