Honorable Service Ribbon Initiative

[flyboy53]

Sorry, I'd rather wear my military stuff.

I felt this was just another lame ribbon in a pile of ribbons that really don't have that much meaning. Besides, one ribbon doesn't make up for seven decorations and five rows of ribbons. We would be better served trying to get NHQ to adopt full-sized medals instead of another ribbon.

While I agree that full-sized medals would be a good idea.  I find your demeaning of CAP awards insulting.  CAP ribbons have meaning, don't belittle them through "apples/oranges" comparisons to military awards.

It has nothing to do with "demeaing" any awards/ribbons/decorations and more to explain to you that there are awards and medals that may mean more to the individual.

You want make CAP awards and decorations mean something, than clean up the system so that the ribbons/awards/decorations really mean something.

I don't know how many times in my 35 years in this organization, I've run into cadets and senior members who just put on ribbons and badges and try to pass themselves off as really earning them. Most recently, it was two cadets wearing ground team leader badges who had only recently earned GT-2. One of those cadets went to NBB and came back wearng a Find ribbon with devices and a SAR ribbon. The other cadet used his CAC position to somehow secure a Lifesaving Award Certificate and used that as justification to wear the ribbon. He never earned the award and his wearing it insults two CAP officers that I know personally who earned theirs during 9-11 at the World Trade Center.

We even had a former National Commander who allegedly directed traffic at an accident and put himself in for a Bronze Medal of Valor.

Those are just a few abuses of the program and just enough to demean the meaning of an award. My whole point was make the ribbons/awards/decorations really mean something. That is why my Air Force decorations/ribbons and awards mean more to me. The CAP Awards and Recognition Program is meant to lend to individual credibility and give true meaing to the achievement or sacrifice...and most importantly, my comments, were not meant to insult you.

[RiverAux]

It does not demean the award if people with no ethics wear the award without actually earning it the right way.  By that criteria the Medal of Honor is worthless because some whackos wear it that haven't earned it. 

[Major Carrales]

Any time someone tried to, by omission, design or on purpose, I have to "call" that as ridiculous.  CAP Ribbons, badges and awards are represent the merits and gratitude of the organization of which you and I belong and, thus, you should all share my desire to see them have meaning.

I'll call the same card on people who pull that with Law Enforcement and Fire awards. 

As for those wearing things they didn't earn, I share your annoyance and passionate indignation for them, for the same reason. 

[James Shaw]

Any time someone tried to, by omission, design or on purpose, I have to "call" that as ridiculous.  CAP Ribbons, badges and awards are represent the merits and gratitude of the organization of which you and I belong and, thus, you should all share my desire to see them have meaning.

+1


I think the concept of the thing was great but the overall need for it is not there. Those that have served in the RM  can still wear them on the appropriate CAP uniform. If we were to do something like that than they should just allow the NDSM to be worn on the CAP distinctive. However as one mentioned earlier it is being phased out.

[cap235629]

I think the concept of the thing was great but the overall need for it is not there. Those that have served in the RM  can still wear them on the appropriate CAP uniform. If we were to do something like that than they should just allow the NDSM to be worn on the CAP distinctive. However as one mentioned earlier it is being phased out.

Again you are missing the segment of the membership that either choose to or only can wear the Corporate uniforms.

[James Shaw]

Again you are missing the segment of the membership that either choose to or only can wear the Corporate uniforms.

The corporate jacket is being phased out and therefore would negate the need overall.

[CAP Producer]

I think the concept of the thing was great but the overall need for it is not there. Those that have served in the RM  can still wear them on the appropriate CAP uniform. If we were to do something like that than they should just allow the NDSM to be worn on the CAP distinctive. However as one mentioned earlier it is being phased out.

The only problem is that not all veterans served during the eligbility period for the NDSM.

It was authorized until the Vietman War ended in 1975 and re-authorized for the Gulf War in 1991 and is authorized to the present day.

There are many veterans who served between these 2 conflicts who were not eligible for the NDSM. That was one of the reasons why the Army created the Army Service Ribbon in 1981.

Again you are missing the segment of the membership that either choose to or only can wear the Corporate uniforms.

The corporate jacket is being phased out and therefore would negate the need overall.

CAP ribbons may still be worn on the Aviator Shirt Combo.

[James Shaw]

The only problem is that not all veterans served during the eligbility period for the NDSM.

It was authorized until the Vietman War ended in 1975 and re-authorized for the Gulf War in 1991 and is authorized to the present day.

There are many veterans who served between these 2 conflicts who were not eligible for the NDSM. That was one of the reasons why the Army created the Army Service Ribbon in 1981.

CAP ribbons may still be worn on the Aviator Shirt Combo.

I understand the reasoning but do not see the need for it.

[cap235629]

I think the concept of the thing was great but the overall need for it is not there. Those that have served in the RM  can still wear them on the appropriate CAP uniform. If we were to do something like that than they should just allow the NDSM to be worn on the CAP distinctive. However as one mentioned earlier it is being phased out.

The only problem is that not all veterans served during the eligbility period for the NDSM.

It was authorized until the Vietman War ended in 1975 and re-authorized for the Gulf War in 1991 and is authorized to the present day.

There are many veterans who served between these 2 conflicts who were not eligible for the NDSM. That was one of the reasons why the Army created the Army Service Ribbon in 1981.

Again you are missing the segment of the membership that either choose to or only can wear the Corporate uniforms.

The corporate jacket is being phased out and therefore would negate the need overall.

CAP ribbons may still be worn on the Aviator Shirt Combo.

But military ribbons are not, hence the initiative.  caphistorian there are MANY members who have served that fall into the category I mentioned who have no way of wearing their "resume" because Military Awards cannot be worn on CAP uniforms (which in my opinion is unfair because all services but the Air Force allow the wear of ribbons on civilian clothing, which the corporate "uniforms" are).  The service of a slim and trim veteran is no more worthy of recognition than that of a fat and fuzzy veteran.  So if the fat and fuzzies cannot wear military awards, I move that no member be allowed to wear military awards on ANY uniform, in the spirit of fairness.

[cap235629]

The only problem is that not all veterans served during the eligbility period for the NDSM.

It was authorized until the Vietman War ended in 1975 and re-authorized for the Gulf War in 1991 and is authorized to the present day.

There are many veterans who served between these 2 conflicts who were not eligible for the NDSM. That was one of the reasons why the Army created the Army Service Ribbon in 1981.

CAP ribbons may still be worn on the Aviator Shirt Combo.

I understand the reasoning but do not see the need for it.

In looking at your ribbon rack in your signature I notice no military awards.  Is this because you choose not to wear them or because you are not a veteran?  If it is the latter I suggest that your opinion might be colored by your lack of experience with the issue at hand.

[James Shaw]

But military ribbons are not, hence the initiative.  caphistorian there are MANY members who have served that fall into the category I mentioned who have no way of wearing their "resume" because Military Awards cannot be worn on CAP uniforms (which in my opinion is unfair because all services but the Air Force allow the wear of ribbons on civilian clothing, which the corporate "uniforms" are).  The service of a slim and trim veteran is no more worthy of recognition than that of a fat and fuzzy veteran.  So if the fat and fuzzies cannot wear military awards, I move that no member be allowed to wear military awards on ANY uniform, in the spirit of fairness.

I understand and do not disagree with the initiative.

I fall into those categories of AD Navy and Army as well as the fat and fuzzy. We can wear the AD ribbons on the CAP uniform. I am not against it.

In looking at your ribbon rack in your signature I notice no military awards.  Is this because you choose not to wear them or because you are not a veteran?  If it is the latter I suggest that your opinion might be colored by your lack of experience with the issue at hand.

I wore them at one time when I first joined. When I received the SMV I was asked by my Commander to wear my CAP stuff only. You could look at previous posts of this nature and see that I have always felt that if you earned them than wear them. I received a total of 11 when I was on AD. When I wore all of them I was told I was being prideful and pretentious for the display.

[cap235629]

I fall into those categories of AD Navy and Army as well as the fat and fuzzy. We can wear the AD ribbons on the CAP uniform. I am not against it.

Actually we can only wear them on the CAP "AF Style uniform" NOT on the now defunct CSU or the Aviator uniform. Hence the problem.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Really, what is the problem with us wearing all that we have been awarded with?

I can understand the idea that some times too much can clutter the uniform, but then again look at the BDU, one patch on each pocket on the breast, two badges above the CAP tape, and one large patch above the name tape, now who is talking about cluttered?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am proud of what I have done, both AD and CAP. I want to be able to display all of it that I can.

I think that the ribbons/ mini medals would look better and be more on a level plane if military ribbons were mingled in with the CAP ribbons. Something to the effect of; MMBR ribbon, NDSM, Good conduct, (skipping ahead to way up top) BMOV, Bronze Star, Silver Star, SMOV, MOH.

Sort of make things more to where you show that this CAP medal is comparable in CAP to this medal in the Armed Forces. I know I am not the only one who has thought about this, even the CGAux does it this way.

[CAP Producer]

Really, what is the problem with us wearing all that we have been awarded with?

I can understand the idea that some times too much can clutter the uniform, but then again look at the BDU, one patch on each pocket on the breast, two badges above the CAP tape, and one large patch above the name tape, now who is talking about cluttered?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am proud of what I have done, both AD and CAP. I want to be able to display all of it that I can.

I think that the ribbons/ mini medals would look better and be more on a level plane if military ribbons were mingled in with the CAP ribbons. Something to the effect of; MMBR ribbon, NDSM, Good conduct, (skipping ahead to way up top) BMOV, Bronze Star, Silver Star, SMOV, MOH.

Sort of make things more to where you show that this CAP medal is comparable in CAP to this medal in the Armed Forces. I know I am not the only one who has thought about this, even the CGAux does it this way.

You have every right to be proud of your military and CAP achivements/awards LT, but sometimes simple humility (in a plain uniform) is better.

[flyboy53]

Or, by choice, present a conservative appearance in uniform. All of us seem to be very proud of our service, as we should be, but I chose to wear only my AF stuff, not because I am disregarding my CAP service, but because if I were to wear everything, I'd have 30+ ribbons. For me, that's a little too much. I believe it sends the wrong message, especially to cadets.

I am curious, though, about the wearing of military ribbons on civilian clothing. When the comment was made, I realized that veterans groups wear military stuff on their "civilian" distintive uniforms. I am also aware of different police agencies which will allow a veteran to wear their highest military award on a police uniform, so I wonder who made the determination that you couldn't wear military stuff on a corporate uniform?

[spacecommand]

No room not even for the highest CAP ribbon you have?  Senior Members are not required to wear every single ribbon they have been awarded, many do, some do not, nor does it need to be the highest ribbon awarded.

Any case, I do see there needs to be something for senior members who wear the corporate equivalent to show prior military service, if they so choose to.

[flyboy53]

No room not even for the highest CAP ribbon you have?  Senior Members are not required to wear every single ribbon they have been awarded, many do, some do not, nor does it need to be the highest ribbon awarded.

Any case, I do see there needs to be something for senior members who wear the corporate equivalent to show prior military service, if they so choose to.

I should consider that, I have four Commander's Commendations and a GRW. Those are the two that mean the most to me.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have cut my rack down to only wearing my IRQ Camp, AFG Camp, ARCOM (x2), GCM, and NATO ISAF, with all of my CAP ribbons. It doesn't look much different at all, but I will never take my CIB off.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Anyways, what is to stop CAP from allowing us to wear our earned ribbons and awards from the Army USMC USN USCG? The uniform isn't controlled by USAF, and all of those branches allow the wear of ribbons medals and devices on civilian attire, so long as they are in the same area as worn in uniform. The USAF is the only branch that seems to think they still own your awards.

[MIKE]

... but I will never take my CIB off.

You better pray that the next re-write of CAPM 39-1 doesn't fall into line with the current AFI 36-2903 then.