Medal or Reprimand?

[jimmydeanno]

"Where were the senior leaders?"

What if the cadets were the only ones in the group with ES experience, or one was the GTL on scene?  I know plenty of seniors that wouldn't know what to do in those situations...

EDIT: Isn't the cadet named in the article a member of this board? [screenname: cadet zimmerman]

[Airrace]

Medal

[blackrain]

Medal AND a very thorough AAR.

I guess we all suffer from "movie hero syndrome" That's where we see the movie hero do exactly the right thing at exactly the right time for the exactly desired effect. At the same time we expect that in the real world.

I think that is what makes it hard on some deployed troops who second guess split second decisions made downrange. By themselves OR others. It's very easy to do.

[Eclipse]

"Where were the senior leaders?"

What if the cadets were the only ones in the group with ES experience, or one was the GTL on scene?

Then they should not have been there at all.  A cadet may be functioning as a GTL, but cadets are never in charge of themselves.

[jimmydeanno]

Then they should not have been there at all.  A cadet may be functioning as a GTL, but cadets are never in charge or themselves.

My point in that situation is that scenario is that the GTL could have had "senior supervision" that didn't have the slightest clue about how to handle an accident scene.  Therefore, the senior knows that the cadet has training.

It's the same as me telling a Cadet MP how to fly the plane, even though I'm not a pilot. 

But in this particular case, the article makes note of the cadets father, who sounds like he's a member, praising the cadets for their action.  So, senior supervision covered.  Public and newspapers think they did a good job.

Give them a medal and call it a day.

[IceNine]

This is the definition of what the Silver Medal of Valor is for.  Most SMV acts were done with the best of intentions followed by 20/20 vision of "what was I thinking". 

Non-concur. 

While certainly laudable for all the reasons Maj Harris states, the cadets' actions don't rise to the level of valor or heroism in the slightest.  Give 'em an Achievement Award and call it good.

I think I would strongly disagree with you but then I realized that no matter what happened, we really don't know.

Based off of the very detail poor article we can only assume.  I am sure in short order CAP commander's at all levels will be reviewing this for medal/award/reprimand.

[FW]

From the story given, I think the cadets did a good job.  However, I agree that a very intensive AAR and debrief be done before any other actions are taken.

[James Shaw]

I would put this in for the highest thing possible and let them decide on things after that.

[a2capt]

I'm willing to bet Dollars to SAREX Doughnuts that the story is written stupidly and grossly misrepresents most of what happened. Typical braindead sensationalism scoopism journalism moron material.

With that said, I agree. Put it in for the highest thing possible and let them sort it out. Why? because thats how the system works.

Something good happened there, people were on their toes. Let them get recognized for their actions and use that as inspiration for the rest and let it show that our system works.

[Flying Pig]

A thourough review of the incident is required before any medals should be awarded.  Especially a BMoV or SMoV.

As far as putting for the highest medal, I dont agree with that.  Following that criteria, we would put everyone in for the SMoV.  Its up to the commander or designee to conduct the review of the scene and then crack open the books and put them in for the appropriate medal.

[James Shaw]

A thourough review of the incident is required before any medals should be awarded.  Especially a BMoV or SMoV.

As far as putting for the highest medal, I dont agree with that.  Following that criteria, we would put everyone in for the SMoV.  Its up to the commander or designee to conduct the review of the scene and then crack open the books and put them in for the appropriate medal.

My suggestion is to put them in for the highest possible that does not mean necessarily the SMV, BMV, or Life Save. That means they should objectively look at the circumstances surrounding this and put them in for what they feel is warranted. If I were involved in this I would treat these as seperate incidences. Look at the safety factor as a seperate part from the act itself. They need to be approached individually and treated individually.

[Ranger75]

Inferring facts from a single photo and the content of a brief media piece is hardly sufficient for a commander to take action, either with an award or a reprimand.  I would hope that in evaluating the circumstances, any commander would seek out multiple witnesses to the events, to include those directly involved in the actions, prior to formulating a command response.  I know that, if I were in the position to review a recommendation for either recognition or condemnation, one based solely on the scant information provided, the request would be returned without action and a firm suggestion to do the appropriate legwork before resubmitting. 

[Eclipse]

I know that, if I were in the position to review a recommendation for either recognition or condemnation, one based solely on the scant information provided, the request would be returned without action and a firm suggestion to do the appropriate legwork before resubmitting.

+1

[Rotorhead]

This is the definition of what the Silver Medal of Valor is for.  Most SMV acts were done with the best of intentions followed by 20/20 vision of "what was I thinking". 

Non-concur. 

While certainly laudable for all the reasons Maj Harris states, the cadets' actions don't rise to the level of valor or heroism in the slightest. 

I agree; to do so would dilute the meaning of the SMV.

[Spike]

Medal. 

Wait 2 Months....mandatory Safety Tests, Multiple ORM courses added and Safety SOP amended making it prohibitory for Cadet to be around places where Airplanes can have accidents.

So, how long until we have a mandatory Safety down Month??

[ZigZag911]

!) Investigate facts
2) AAR & safety discussion with all present at activity
3) Appropriate recognition based on circumstances as determined by investigation  (medal of some sort, even if only achievement)

[smitjud]

Incidentally, where are the senior members? 

Given my experience with local news outlets here and the tendency to be misquoted and their lack of understanding of the organization, the "senior cadets" mentioned by the article were likely actually senior members.  Despite repeated explanations otherwise, some of out local news outlets still think that every CAP member, regardless of age is a cadet and are completely oblivious to the distinction between cadet and senior member.

[sparks]

The CAP unit providing assistance to the young eagle flights should have the facts. Based on those facts I hope the squadron and wing will take the appropriate action, whatever that is.
AvWeb had a picture and synopsis of the event in its news page today. The accident aircraft looked like a Grumman Tiger. It was upright, in the grass approaching a slight slope and appeared relatively undamaged. Since all sides of the aircraft weren't shown it may have damage on the other side.

[wingnut55]

Well ask the Fire Department what they think??

I think that as a school administrator an adult would be losing their Job.

As a former Cadet who has done the same thing!! Medal in public and chew butt later.

GOOD JOB
:clap:

[Johnny Yuma]

I'm not a huge fan of medals, but definitely some ATTABOYS are in order.

First off, the guy on the wing in the picture looks like a Senior member, not a cadet.

Second, I suspect it was an ELT that was being turned off, not transponders. The media (short of the APOA magazine) believes the ELT to be some sort of emergency transponder. Killing fuel switches and battery power is not only prudent but well thought.

To take dramatic license from a Clint Eastwood movies of the 80's:

A few young CAP firepissers took a little initiative, and kicked ASS!