Medal or Reprimand?

[RiverAux]

See this story about a plane crash at a little airshow that apparently had CAP on scene.  Two cadets apparently entered crashed plane, turning off fuel switch and doing something with the transponders.  Another cadet apparently guided in a helicopter. 

http://www.ledger-dispatch.com/news/newsview.asp?c=261379

[SarDragon]

Medal.

[heliodoc]

SAWEEEET!!!

Cadets in action!!   Medal

But the real CAP will find some sort of safety problem or "punishment."

Punishment ...right here on CAPTalk

[coolkites]

SAWEEEET!!!

Cadets in action!!   Medal

But the real CAP will find some sort of safety problem or "punishment."

that is sadly so true. 
Medal

[RiverAux]

It appears that none of the passengers suffered any injuries as they were just described as "shaken", so it doesn't seem to me that entry into the aircraft was required for lifesaving purposes. 

Yet, two cadets went into the aircraft and against our policy, as expressed in the GT Ref Text, began disturbing switches and aircraft controls.  Sure, they did this to prevent a fire, but seeing as how the article says that two of them entered this small plane to do this, we can probably assume that all the passengers were out at that point.  So, rather than trying to move people back from a dangerous scene, they go into it for no good reason. 

While we don't know at what point the photo was taken, it appears the cadets are making no effort to try to move people back from a potentially dangerous scene and instead we see one climbing around on the wing of a crashed aircraft that appears quite unstable.

Unless the real story is that there was someone trapped in the airplane and the cadets went into it to make it safe for that person to get out (in which case I'd be in favor of a medal), I see a couple of cadets who, in violation of CAP policy regarding crash sites, that made the decision to put themselves and all the people millling about the plane at risk so that they could crawl in the wreck rather than getting everybody far enough away from the plane so that if it did catch on fire, no one would be in danger.  Its the job of the fire department to risk their lives to save property, not CAP cadets. 

Incidentally, where are the senior members?  Were these cadets so unsupervised that they were able to head off into an accident scene without a senior member taking charge of the situation?  Where was the senior member suprivising the cadet who took it upon himself to try to land a helicopter (we all know helicopter pilots rarely really need or appreciate such help during the day).  If there was a senior member that was actually supervising these actions, he probably needs to be kicked out for not putting a stop to it. 

[Chappie]

Definitely medal

[Eclipse]

Incidentally, where are the senior members?  Were these cadets so unsupervised that they were able to head off into an accident scene without a senior member taking charge of the situation?  Where was the senior member suprivising the cadet who took it upon himself to try to land a helicopter (we all know helicopter pilots rarely really need or appreciate such help during the day).  If there was a senior member that was actually supervising these actions, he probably needs to be kicked out for not putting a stop to it.

+1 - First thing I wondered.

CAP's SOP is to address life safety issues and then cordon off the area until such time as FD says things are safe.

As indicated, there does not appear to any emergency situation with the aircraft or passengers, so once they were out, everyone should have backed away from the scene.

Neither medal, nor reprimand, but a direct conversation with the seniors, cadets, and the cadets' parents about our regulations and proper procedure.

[Hawk200]

Give them a medal in public, rip 'em a new one in semi-private?

[Jerry Jacobs]

Air Force-sponsored club

WTF?

Anyways about the medal or Reprimand debate, there may have been fear of back injury with the passengers, therefore it would be favored to minimize any movement of the passengers.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Cadets did the right thing.  In the situation they perserved life and property until advanced care could arrive.

So the pilots and passengers were "ok", what if the fuel was not shut off?  They also reported what they did to preserve life and property.

Medal.

[Cecil DP]

It looks like that photo was taken from 50 yards away, so someone was doing crowd control.

[lordmonar]

It appears that none of the passengers suffered any injuries as they were just described as "shaken", so it doesn't seem to me that entry into the aircraft was required for lifesaving purposes.

Sitting in your living room after the fact...it is easy to make that call.

Yet, two cadets went into the aircraft and against our policy, as expressed in the GT Ref Text, began disturbing switches and aircraft controls.  Sure, they did this to prevent a fire, but seeing as how the article says that two of them entered this small plane to do this, we can probably assume that all the passengers were out at that point.  So, rather than trying to move people back from a dangerous scene, they go into it for no good reason.

Point 1.  You are allowed to move switches and debris to safe lifes and make the scene safe. 
Point 2. You again make assumptions after the face about what they should have done.

While we don't know at what point the photo was taken, it appears the cadets are making no effort to try to move people back from a potentially dangerous scene and instead we see one climbing around on the wing of a crashed aircraft that appears quite unstable.

Assumptions again.

Unless the real story is that there was someone trapped in the airplane and the cadets went into it to make it safe for that person to get out (in which case I'd be in favor of a medal), I see a couple of cadets who, in violation of CAP policy regarding crash sites, that made the decision to put themselves and all the people millling about the plane at risk so that they could crawl in the wreck rather than getting everybody far enough away from the plane so that if it did catch on fire, no one would be in danger.  Its the job of the fire department to risk their lives to save property, not CAP cadets.

Just about any story of heroism can also be a story of what not to do. As for who's job is it......is that what we really want to teach our cadets and officers?  I mean we can extend that entire thinking to CAP as a whole.   SAR is the USAF's job and the local Sherriff's.  Let's play the what if game.  What if there was someone hurt in the crash, what if there was a chance of a fire....but our cadets too afraid of "breaking the rules" did nothing but to tell everyone to get back and wait for the fire department.  How many times do we read about someone who could have been saved if someone had just acted soon enough.

Incidentally, where are the senior members?  Were these cadets so unsupervised that they were able to head off into an accident scene without a senior member taking charge of the situation?  Where was the senior member suprivising the cadet who took it upon himself to try to land a helicopter (we all know helicopter pilots rarely really need or appreciate such help during the day).  If there was a senior member that was actually supervising these actions, he probably needs to be kicked out for not putting a stop to it.

And now that is some really assinine Monday Night Quarterbacking!  Someone needs to burn because our cadets acted in a way we teach them to act.  Quickly, appropriately and with concern for our fellow man.  But no......there must have been some lack of supervision so let's burn them!

River.....You tend to be a Debbie Downer about all thing CAP.....but this just takes the cake!  This is exactly how I would want my cadet to react.  Even if their actions were not needed.  Even if they may have broken some rules, they did so with the intention of saving lives and prevenint loss of property and they did it with out getting hurt.  If that is now to your likeing....may I suggest you take your football and go into someone else's backyard to play.

[IceNine]

This is the definition of what the Silver Medal of Valor is for.  Most SMV acts were done with the best of intentions followed by 20/20 vision of "what was I thinking".  The question here will be given that the pilot had only minor injuries was there a potential for loss of life, there by dictating the award given.

Stepping into a dangerous situation to save a life is nothing short of heroic.  Some times its incredibly stupid but that doesn't change the valor of it all.

I also agree that some direct conversations are in order from the top down.

[Strick]

Medal............ :angel: :angel: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Gunner C]

MEDAL and a handshake from Hawkeye
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[FARRIER]

Medal - As a cadet, was involved in a similar situation, securing the accident scene at a local airport, because we were there for training. Very first Commanders Commendation.

[Mustang]

This is the definition of what the Silver Medal of Valor is for.  Most SMV acts were done with the best of intentions followed by 20/20 vision of "what was I thinking". 

Non-concur. 

While certainly laudable for all the reasons Maj Harris states, the cadets' actions don't rise to the level of valor or heroism in the slightest.  Give 'em an Achievement Award and call it good.

[Al Sayre]

Very public presentation of a medal, along with some discussion of the safety aspects of their actions. 

What we don't know from the article is if they were there helping out at the show as CAP representatives or just as visitors to enjoy the show... That would make a big difference on how this might be viewed "officially".

[sparks]

Eclipse has the right idea, neither medal nor reprimand. Instead a review of who did what and why would be appropriate. As mentioned above, where were the senior leaders? Although this case ended well the next act of unsupervised "heroism" may end badly. Cadet selfless action is a commendable trait but so is seasoned judgment.
If the aircraft had caught firs after throwing switches would the cadet have been blamed?
Bottom line is a disciplined approach to aircraft accidents is safer for all concerned.

[CAPSGT]

Definately a medal.  Read the criteria for the SMOV and the BMOV....you basically are required to violate safety policies in order to earn them.

Now I would talk with the Senior Members present to find out why they were not keeping cadets away while THEY went to do it.