Countdown to Armageddon

[Major Carrales]

I think that my squadron lost mainly trainees that joined in december so I'll have to check on that.
EDIT: Apparently I am a casualty as I have lost CUL trainee status as I need the 300 and 800 courses and didn't even know it! Ah well I'm still GT qualified and I will begin work for 300 and 800.

OK, I'm just asking...How could you not know it?

I think that my squadron lost mainly trainees that joined in december so I'll have to check on that.
EDIT: Apparently I am a casualty as I have lost CUL trainee status as I need the 300 and 800 courses and didn't even know it! Ah well I'm still GT qualified and I will begin work for 300 and 800.

OK, I'm just asking...How could you not know it?

The answer, my well connected friend, is that we are not in a miltary setting were morning briefings are even possible.  Some units, like ours, meet weekly...some meet once a month and at SARex/SAR.

The largest obstical is getting this information out to everyone. 

Most of our people didn't know what they needed until our WING sent out a chart showing it a month before the deadline. 

It goes back to my point that not all CAP persons are CAPTALK threadsters ad thus are not privy to the rumors and POCA (previews of coming attractions).  I was discussing NIMS with DNALL here well over a year ago, most people in my unit (even federal employees) didn't know much about it then.

I will say this, I get a heads-up on 90% of stuff here...because some have said I am the "busy body" sort.  I do it, in actuality, to be able to keep my unit up on things.  Because of that the "Countdown to Armageddon" for our unit was not  so bad.  Only a few folks will be affected and they will be schooled later.

The problem is in the ability of information to flow down the chain to everyone.

[Eclipse]

Most Cadets who could otherwise come out and train as Ground Team Member 3's will not complete the courses and thus won't even be able to train on practice missions.  Another blow to the cadet program if that happens.

Cite, please.

If you have cadets who will spend the money on the gear, but can't be bothered to take a 15 minute online, open book test, they aren't much of an asset.

[Eclipse]

The answer, my well connected friend, is that we are not in a military setting were morning briefings are even possible.  Some units, like ours, meet weekly...some meet once a month and at SARex/SAR.

I'm not buying that - this has been the topic of conversation, email notices, Wing warnings, NHQ warnings, and other traffic since the summer, and heavy since the late fall.

And in this case, SARADDICT is a member of the CT community, so it doesn't fly anyway.

[Major Carrales]

The answer, my well connected friend, is that we are not in a military setting were morning briefings are even possible.  Some units, like ours, meet weekly...some meet once a month and at SARex/SAR.

I'm not buying that - this has been the topic of conversation, email notices, Wing warnings, NHQ warnings, and other traffic since the summer, and heavy since the late fall.

And in this case, SARADDICT is a member of the CT community, so it doesn't fly anyway.

You are assuming all things are equal...some units are not as savvy as you would think.  There are lots of places where "old school" CAP is still very much running.  In fact, in November 2006, after I have been in command only one month...I had a fellow who was chastizing me for using the COMPUTER too much.  He claimed I was "destroying" the unit by asking everyone to enter their data into MIMS for approval.

He also rejected some copies of the Uniform manual because it was not a "typed" one and thought I had used computer "trickery" to generate a false page to show why Majors wore "clouds and darts" and CAP Officers used "US" lapel insignia instead of "CAP."

I am sure there are a few places across the nation that are "left behind" somehow still operating because someone is "turning the other cheek."

As for SARADDICT, this person has little excuse if this person is on CAPTALK.  It has been well discussed.

[Eclipse]

You are assuming all things are equal...some units are not as savvy as you would think.  There are lots of places where "old school" CAP is still very much running.  In fact, in November 2006, after I have been in command only one month...I had a fellow who was chastising me for using the COMPUTER too much.  He claimed I was "destroying" the unit by asking everyone to enter their data into MIMS for approval.

He also rejected some copies of the Uniform manual because it was not a "typed" one and thought I had used computer "trickery" to generate a false page to show why Majors wore "clouds and darts" and CAP Officers used "US" lapel insignia instead of "CAP."

It would be funny if it wasn't true, I ran into the same, though not as extreme.  From the late 90's through the early 00's, the transition was painful, but still accommodated the late comers.  Today, however, you simply can't be a productive member of CAP (or soon society), without computer access.  It is what it is.  I know that people complained in the same way about the haves / have-nots of the radio nets, and those CC's who hoarded the hard-copy regs away from the rank and file.

Information is power and there's always an underclass, though I think its less now since the whole shooting match is online.

I am sure there are a few places across the nation that are "left behind" somehow still operating because someone is "turning the other cheek."

Sadly, we all know you're right, although if they are that disconnected, they probably won't notice and it'll be status quo for months, if not longer...

[Short Field]

Correct.  There is no "approval" process.  You just need someone with validation permissions in eServices who saw the certificate.

[RiverAux]

The answer, my well connected friend, is that we are not in a miltary setting were morning briefings are even possible.  Some units, like ours, meet weekly...some meet once a month and at SARex/SAR.

The largest obstical is getting this information out to everyone.  

Most of our people didn't know what they needed until our WING sent out a chart showing it a month before the deadline.  

A perennial problem for a lot of CAP-wide announcements, but its not like this was a short-notice change.  8 months was quite long enough and if your Wing failed to pass the word, shame on them, but also shame on you for apparently not bugging your wing to make the announcement sooner, because you knew about it well before this past month.  I have been the instigator of such nudges to my superiors when I thought they weren't moving fast enough to get the word out about something.  

[wuzafuzz]

Are there entire squadrons out there that are completely offline?  It's hard to accept there wasn't a least one person in each unit that knew about the required courses and could have shared the information.

It's understandable that some members don't have computers at home, but there is usually access available through a public library, work, school, or some other shared resource.  (I know there will be a few exceptions.)  I just have to believe that most members with a desire could have completed the online NIMS/ICS courses if they knew about them.  The classroom courses are another story.

Of course there will be members who resist because they just don't want to play along.  Unfortunately they are hurting themselves along with the rest of us.  Some of our funding is distributed based on ES qualifications.  As a bunch of those qualifications drop off, there may be less money to pay for the things even the most resistant members enjoy.

[davidsinn]

Found out yesterday that INWG has 31 GTMs currently. Of those 17 are GTLs. A lot of CCs screwed the pooch there. In my unit I was the last one to come into full compliance and that was new years eve. My unit is now 100% ICS. I sure hope an airplane does not go down in the next few weeks otherwise Eclipse will be riding to our rescue 

[EMT-83]

A lot of CCs screwed the pooch there.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? There might be a few members who weren't aware of the deadline, but it wasn't exactly a secret.

[davidsinn]

A lot of CCs screwed the pooch there.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? There might be a few members who weren't aware of the deadline, but it wasn't exactly a secret.

You have a point there but in the end it's the Commander's responsibility to ensure mission success.

[ELTHunter]

Most Cadets who could otherwise come out and train as Ground Team Member 3's will not complete the courses and thus won't even be able to train on practice missions.  Another blow to the cadet program if that happens.

Cite, please.

If you have cadets who will spend the money on the gear, but can't be bothered to take a 15 minute on line, open book test, they aren't much of an asset.

How much experience have you had working directly with Cadets?  I can't site you specific instances, I can only say that I have had many.....probably most cadets.....over the past 10 years...that would perpetually be in a training status because they would not take the time to go into MIMS or Ops Quals or whatever the name of the day was and enter their own information into the SQTR.

I am not talking about cadets that didn't have a clue what to do in the field, I'm talking about cadets that were vary capable of performing well as GTM3's and GTM2's in the field but just couldn't manage to write down mission numbers and get the information into the database.

I don't pretend to understand the teenage mind.  They can spend countless hours playing internet games or text messaging, but can't seem to find 15 minutes to enter their information.

[Short Field]

There is no excuse for Commanders being unaware of the ICS requirements.   It boggles the mind that they never log on to eServices to handle personnel issues and check out the Commander's Dashboard or got any type of information from the Wing/CC.  Too hard to believe.

The Commander's responsibility is to make sure the members know the requirements and to provide training opportunities (if able).  However, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.  There are a lot of members who refused to drink.  

Our wing' just lost over 50% of our ICs.  Not that big a loss as only two or three were people you would call anyway and they have been trying to get IC 300 for months.  

[Al Sayre]

Some of us have been standing on the tables shouting about this change for over a year, but it seems like no one has been listening.  You can't drag people by the scruff of the neck over to the computer and make them do it no matter how much you would like to.  Maybe the point will be driven home next time they drive halfway across the state for a SAREX and then get sent home for not having completed thier ICS requirements.

[Major Carrales]

Some of us have been standing on the tables shouting about this change for over a year, but it seems like no one has been listening.  You can't drag people by the scruff of the neck over to the computer and make them do it no matter how much you would like to.  Maybe the point will be driven home next time they drive halfway across the state for a SAREX and then get sent home for not having completed thier ICS requirements.

Solution: Make the ICS basic cycle part of the overall CAP system.  Want to fly a CAP Aircraft?...well, step up to the plate for a helping of IS 100,200, 700 and 800.   Want to work with Cadets...be a cadet NCO? Well, have a helping of IS 200 and 700. 

I am reminded of Thomas Paine's comments in Commonsense about "the birthday of a new world" and starting over again.  We should view this a "begin point," not Armageddon.

Why mandate this?  Ideally all CAP pilots should have some ES capability.  If not, what is the reason they are here?  Most cadets are very interested (at least in my area) in ES, especially when they realize it is a "REAL" thing.  Why not introduce them to ICS, maybe they can explain it to thier parents during Hurricane evacuations.

[Short Field]

Solution: Make the ICS basic cycle part of the overall CAP system.  Want to fly a CAP Aircraft?...well, step up to the plate for a helping of IS 100,200, 700 and 800.   Want to work with Cadets...be a cadet NCO? Well, have a helping of IS 200 and 700. 

They did just that with the 10 April 2008 ICL.  In you play in the ES sandbox, you will have ICS training.

[Eclipse]

Why mandate this?  Ideally all CAP pilots should have some ES capability.  If not, what is the reason they are here?  Most cadets are very interested (at least in my area) in ES, especially when they realize it is a "REAL" thing.  Why not introduce them to ICS, maybe they can explain it to thier parents during Hurricane evacuations.

I agree 100% - this idea of "we don't do ES" (or any one of the three missions) is incredibly counterproductive to CAP as a whole, but pushing it on pilots who just want to burn cheap holes in the sky will be an uphill battle - ditto with the harried Unit CC's in the "flyover states" who are barely keeping their head above water as-is.

In our cadet program we should be building good citizens, not "cadets", "drill gods", "rocketry teams", or "encampment lifers", and in todays reality, responding to community disasters is a part of that (as, of course, are the other pieces in quotes as well).

As to the seniors, they should be responding as needed.

I have never understood what value a pilot believes he's bringing to the table if he's not involved with cadets and not doing ES.

[maverik]

Found out yesterday that INWG has 31 GTMs currently. Of those 17 are GTLs. A lot of CCs screwed the pooch there. In my unit I was the last one to come into full compliance and that was new years eve. My unit is now 100% ICS. I sure hope an airplane does not go down in the next few weeks otherwise Eclipse will be riding to our rescue 

Wow 31 GTMs and 17 GTLs? that's about 4-5 ground teams with some GTLs left over..... I really hope the wing gets more people in compliance and fast.

[RiverAux]

It looks like the changes are being reflected in the homeland security resources listing report https://ntc.cap.af.mil/ops/hls/resources.cfm

On a national leve we now only have 1265 pilots, which isn't even 3 mission pilots per plane. 

In looking at the regional level reports, there are quite a few states in big trouble.  About the worst seems to be Alabama, Louisiana, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Michigan, Hawaii, Washington, Vermont which are at 1 mission pilot per aircraft (4 of which have less than 1 pilot/aircraft). 

Alaska has NO mission pilots.

As might be expected, the Wings with the most personnel have done the best  since they probably had the highest ratios of pilots to aircraft before the change anyway, but even they aren't at great levels. 

As I've said before, we'll probably eventually get back to about 80-90% of our pre-NIMS numbers, but those who think that we aren't in a serious short-term crisis are kidding themselves. 

[Gunner C]

In looking at the regional level reports, there are quite a few states in big trouble.  About the worst seems to be Alabama, Louisiana, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Michigan, Hawaii, Washington, Vermont which are at 1 mission pilot per aircraft (4 of which have less than 1 pilot/aircraft). 

Alaska has NO mission pilots.

Good grief.  Where's the leadership?  This should have been a briefing item to the national commander ONCE A WEEK and region commanders should have been monitoring what the wings were doing to keep this from happening.  Sure, members are going to do what they want, but there's a solid core of pilots, observers, scanners, GTMs, etc that get things done no matter what.  Having a wing that's entirely on its butt (Alaska) is intolerable, especially when they have multiple missions per day from time to time.

Some of these colonels and generals need to be called to account.

Gunner