FLIR?

[disamuel]

I just saw this article. I didn't realize that we had any aircraft equipped with FLIR:

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news/?wyo_wing_adds_flir_capability_to_idaho_search_for_missing_calif_plane_family&show=news&newsID=17774

[sardak]

North Dakota Wing also has a FLIR equipped aircraft.  http://cap.loneprairie.net/flir-camera/

Mike

[Crosswind]

They were purchased by Wyoming Homeland Security and recently installed in the 182 in Casper and the Turbo 206 in Jackson.  Today was the first real-world mission with one of the units, as the install was just completed recently and the FLIR rep was in the state two weeks ago for initial training.  Great systems, and will be beneficial in daytime and nighttime ops.

[Flying Pig]

So is the pilot flying on NVGs?  Are they flying at night in mountainous terrain?

[Crosswind]

No NVGs onboard.  And the flight parameters are still being hammered out, but initially no nighttime flights lower than 2,000 AGL, along with oxygen, since 2,000 AGL is at least 7,500 ASL in most areas of Wyoming.  All VFR, no IFR.   The system works like a charm in the daytime, so it remains to be seen what night ops we might be called on to carry out.

[Flying Pig]

You guys are using it during the day only?   As someone with a couple thousand hours using the FLIR and piloting an aircraft with FLIR, I hope CAP understands and trains for the risks associated with it.  NVGs with an IR laser is the way to use a FLIR at night.  But Im sure none of that will happen. 

[Crosswind]

We're setting up night proficiency and training parameters, and all Wyoming pilots are mountain certified prior to becoming MPs.  The state military department is providing funding for night/FLIR training, and safety is, as it should be, priority number one.  In this environment we are all aware of the dangerous terrain we fly in, and adding a night component will mean additional mitigation of risk, something we're all supportive of.

[PHall]

Crosswind, I would listen to Flying Pig. He has a lot of hours flying helicopters on NVG's and using FLIR while flying the Sierras in California.

[Crosswind]

I respect his experience, and am not disagreeing with him.  NVG's are a non-starter with CAP for an aircrew.  This is new tech for us, and we're taking it slow.  We have two planes, North Dakota one with FLIR, so we're the beta testers for the equipment.  Hawaii and Illinois are next up for FLIR and it will be a group effort to establish safe and effective flights. 

[Eclipse]

NVG's are a non-starter with CAP for an aircrew.

NVGs are approved for use by Scanner and Observers, and have been for a number of years.

CAPR 60-1, Dec 2012:

"2-1. Basic Rules.
d. The use of night vision devices by the pilot flying CAP aircraft is prohibited.

Night vision devices are for use ONLY by scanners and observers who have completed nationally approved training in the use of this equipment. Only nationally approved night vision devices are authorized for use."

Though which NVGs are "nationally approved" is anyone's guess, ditto on the training.

That IL is next on the list to get a FLIR is news to us, though the list of "forgot to mention it to you" gets longer every day.
Who's paying for it?

[Flying Pig]

Id be interested in knowing what nationally approved training is.  If Im an FAA NVG IP, does that qualify?  My advice.... and people may not like it.... but Observers in night FLIR missions also be rated pilots.  You are flying as an observer using your NVGs.  An emergency happens over the mountains, the observer takes over and "assists" the pilot.  Or at a minimum, be able to hold heading and altitude until out of the terrain.   But Then you get into issues with NVG lighting int he cockpit, and whether or not you are wearing a Walmart set of NVGs or a real aviation set of NVGs

Honestly, flying NVGs isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be.  I have over 600hrs of NVG PIC, and probably a couple thousand as an aircrew member.  But the one thing is a set of NVGs approved for aviation will run you about $13,000.   The FLIR with the IR laser and NVGs is amazing.

What model is it?  What features are they coming with?  Without a mapping system, there are seveal features the FLIR won't be able to do, but still a neat deal.  Is there any recorders?  You can get a good recorder with an SD card after market and it will plug right in with just a couple mods to an AV connector.   It will record voice as well.  (not always a good thing  )  Shoot..... that'd be neat to be part of implementing that and helping with training.

[SarDragon]

Crosswind, I would listen to Flying Pig. He has a lot of hours flying helicopters on NVG's and using FLIR while flying the Sierras in California.

Lighten up, Phil. All of Wyoming is higher ASL than more than the average altitude of California, so they are probably well aware of what's going on WRT flying at higher altitudes.

[Crosswind]

FlyingP - It's the FLIR 8500.  Handheld controller, and a TeraDeck wi-fi video streamer which transmits the video to an iPad for the FLIR operator, and the MO or trainer in the right seat.  We do have a digital recorder as part of the install.

We tried to keep the install as light as possible, and went with the iPads instead of the laptop version, which would have required the removal of a seat.  As it stands, it pushed back our CG several inches, so W&B is extremely critical.

This model does have the laser, along with the HD camera and FLIR.  The laser is only visible to ground teams with NVG, so it might come into play working with LE in some missions.

[Flying Pig]

Crosswind, I would listen to Flying Pig. He has a lot of hours flying helicopters on NVG's and using FLIR while flying the Sierras in California.

Lighten up, Phil. All of Wyoming is higher ASL than more than the average altitude of California, so they are probably well aware of what's going on WRT flying at higher altitudes.

Don't get in an argument on my behalf......  However, altitude wasn't really the issue.  My point was that I hope people aren't flying night time FLIR missions in the mountainous terrain. 

The IR laser is a great feature.   Did it come with the 1.8x zoom?

[The Infamous Meerkat]

All technobabble aside, it was really nice to know that while I was on the ground, that FLIR asset was overhead tracking everything on the mountain. Adds a real sense of security in my mind and with the lack of information we had on this search, it was just one more opportunity we had to find some kind of a clue.

[Crosswind]

The IR laser is a great feature.   Did it come with the 1.8x zoom?

Yes, it does have the 1.8x zoom, a great feature.  At least in training, the 1.8 is the go-to IR mode.  We've also got expanded tracking capability, PCORR, white centroid, black centroid, Scene.  The white centroid does a nice job of picking up signatures.

[Flying Pig]

What altitude AGL are you flying?  Did they spring for any kind of mapping system or is it just the camera and the  iPad?

[Crosswind]

What altitude AGL are you flying?  Did they spring for any kind of mapping system or is it just the camera and the  iPad?

Daytime 1500 AGL, prelim rules minimum 2,000 AGL at night.  No mapping, but hey, we're not complaining  

[Eclipse]

An old article, but has some nice photos of the WYWG FLIR pod.

http://www.codyenterprise.com/news/local/article_455c5bb8-83b4-11e3-a5f3-0019bb2963f4.html

[coudano]

I would think that a really good camera lens (manual focus/zoom) would be as or more important to most of what we do, than IR.