New SQTR / SET Module

[a2capt]

Too much "Web 2.0" cr@p going around.

[bflynn]

Welcome to the new Web, same as the old Web...

[Spaceman3750]

I'm told my issue is resolved, that the typical folks can grant CC approval now. The CC approval tasks don't show a CAPID field because the system shouldn't have been expecting it, but in this case was, in error.

[ctrossen]

Has anyone figured out how to perform a renewal yet?

I'm, IMHO, a not-unintelligent man with some tech skills, but when I look at this I have no idea just how I'm supposed to renew member qualifications.

I picked a member with an expired qual (who, yes, I did actually supervise in a mission last year) and tried just entering a new Exercise Participation #2, but that apparently didn't do anything (though looking at his 101 card, it now shows that specialty in "Supervised Trainee Status").

Color me confused.

[Spaceman3750]

Has anyone figured out how to perform a renewal yet?

I'm, IMHO, a not-unintelligent man with some tech skills, but when I look at this I have no idea just how I'm supposed to renew member qualifications.

I picked a member with an expired qual (who, yes, I did actually supervise in a mission last year) and tried just entering a new Exercise Participation #2, but that apparently didn't do anything (though looking at his 101 card, it now shows that specialty in "Supervised Trainee Status").

Color me confused.

Probably waiting on you to enter completion of the "renewal tasks". Not sure how this part works as it seems to have some tasks marked as renewal that are not renewal tasks IAW 60-3.

[Eclipse]

Has anyone figured out how to perform a renewal yet?

I'm, IMHO, a not-unintelligent man with some tech skills, but when I look at this I have no idea just how I'm supposed to renew member qualifications.

I picked a member with an expired qual (who, yes, I did actually supervise in a mission last year) and tried just entering a new Exercise Participation #2, but that apparently didn't do anything (though looking at his 101 card, it now shows that specialty in "Supervised Trainee Status").

Color me confused.

Exercise participation alone is not enough.  You have to also do some advanced tasks.

[vento]

^^^ Eclipse is right. You also need to do the tasks that has a checkbox next to it. The system now recognizes the difference between initial qual and renewal.

[bflynn]

Exercise participation alone is not enough.  You have to also do some advanced tasks.

This is the part of the this whole thing that I think has a high chance of failure.  It means that if someone is busy doing the work and never can connect with a SET, we lose that person as a qualified member.  Within the next six months, you're going to start seeing good people having expired qualifications just because of the difficulty of getting the paperwork done.

One could argue that if they don't make the extra effort to find a SET and explicity get requalified then they're not the one you want.  But it doesn't change that we're going to more qualifications expiring and we're going to have fewer people to do the work.  I'm not convinced that concentrating work on fewer people is optimal in a volunteer organization.

[husker]

I'm, IMHO, a not-unintelligent man with some tech skills,

Very true statement.   This guy fixed my Yaesu FT-411 at Georgia Tech in 1992.  The radio is still kicking.....

[Eclipse]

Exercise participation alone is not enough.  You have to also do some advanced tasks.

This is the part of the this whole thing that I think has a high chance of failure.  It means that if someone is busy doing the work and never can connect with a SET, we lose that person as a qualified member.  Within the next six months, you're going to start seeing good people having expired qualifications just because of the difficulty of getting the paperwork done.

One could argue that if they don't make the extra effort to find a SET and explicity get requalified then they're not the one you want.  But it doesn't change that we're going to more qualifications expiring and we're going to have fewer people to do the work.  I'm not convinced that concentrating work on fewer people is optimal in a volunteer organization.

This is not new, nor in any way connected to the SQTR update.

[bflynn]

This is not new, nor in any way connected to the SQTR update.

The acceleration of it is very connected to the SET update/reset.

I spoken to several people who attended a meeting or two at our squadron, but never joined.  The consensus was that CAP is too much hassle.  The new SET phase creates more hassle and that should predict a lower membership level.

[Eclipse]

^ I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make.

There is no "acceleration" or any other change in terms of the actual requirements for initial or renewal.

Qualifications don't expire any "more", "less", or "sooner", then before, and the process for getting keeping them has been
basically static for a decade.  In fact, any wing actually doing things properly sees little change in this beyond the
validation of tasks via eServices instead of the hardcopy SQTR.

The only thing that has changed, slightly, is that now members are being held accountable systematically for things being done in
their name.  More to the point is that, as per usual, members and commanders have been operating under their assumption
of the program vs. the actual program.  The system no makes it much more difficult to circumvent the rules, or the accountability.

If being held to a standard, and accountable for your actions is too much hassle, well I'm sure there are plenty of other
worthwhile organizations that can make use of their short attention spans.

[EMT-83]

This is not new, nor in any way connected to the SQTR update.

The acceleration of it is very connected to the SET update/reset.

I spoken to several people who attended a meeting or two at our squadron, but never joined.  The consensus was that CAP is too much hassle.  The new SET phase creates more hassle and that should predict a lower membership level.

Sounds like you need a new greeter standing at the door.

[ctrossen]

Very true statement.   This guy fixed my Yaesu FT-411 at Georgia Tech in 1992.  The radio is still kicking.....

Man, you're making me feel old now!

(And a far easier mod than my FT-470 of the same era)

;-)

[ctrossen]

Probably waiting on you to enter completion of the "renewal tasks". Not sure how this part works as it seems to have some tasks marked as renewal that are not renewal tasks IAW 60-3.

Just tried that, and still no joy. The member's unit commander doesn't see anything awaiting her approval, and neither has my wing-level  "super approval" done anything.

I've got e-mails in to NHQ, but I'm still more than happy to hear if anyone has successfully pushed a renewal through, and if so how.


(Which will be followed closely up by how does OpsQual handle "cascading" renewals: does a GTM1 renewal automatically renew GTM2 & 3, for example, or is that still a completely manual process?)

[Tim Medeiros]

Probably waiting on you to enter completion of the "renewal tasks". Not sure how this part works as it seems to have some tasks marked as renewal that are not renewal tasks IAW 60-3.

Just tried that, and still no joy. The member's unit commander doesn't see anything awaiting her approval, and neither has my wing-level  "super approval" done anything.

I've got e-mails in to NHQ, but I'm still more than happy to hear if anyone has successfully pushed a renewal through, and if so how.


(Which will be followed closely up by how does OpsQual handle "cascading" renewals: does a GTM1 renewal automatically renew GTM2 & 3, for example, or is that still a completely manual process?)

Cascading renewal I know worked before this system upgrade, as far back as Jan when I noticed most of my mission base quals got updated to the same date as my OSC, and they all got updated earlier in April when I got my IC3.

[Eclipse]

Cascading renewal I know worked before this system upgrade, as far back as Jan when I noticed most of my mission base quals got updated to the same date as my OSC, and they all got updated earlier in April when I got my IC3.

We noticed some incremental system upgrades in mid-February which seemed to do this.  We actually viewed it as somewhat of a "problem" since
it was renewing specialties for ICs who haven't done "x" in 1 million years - this was even noted by the wing CC as something to keep an eye on.

We can always disapprove anything we need to selectively.

[JeffDG]

One question:

Does this module support supervision/evaluation based on mission quals...like for example, if I'm ICing a mission, by the old system, I was permitted to supervise just about any mission base staff, even people like LSCs where I didn't have that qual...or as an AOBD you could supervise a MP.

[Eclipse]

One question:

Does this module support supervision/evaluation based on mission quals...like for example, if I'm ICing a mission, by the old system, I was permitted to supervise just about any mission base staff, even people like LSCs where I didn't have that qual...or as an AOBD you could supervise a MP.

No, and frankly I'm not sure that was really ever the case.   I'm open to verbiage from old 60-3's, but most of the people in my wing who have
made that assertion over the years were more interested in "expediency"  vs. "rules".

"Supervising" isn't the same as evaluating, and if you never held a given qual, I don't know how you'd have the expertise to do anything but pencil
whip the member.  Further, you have to be a mission checkpilot in order to do Form 91's, which are required to renew MP, so an IC or AOBD's sig wouldn't mean much, anyway.

[JeffDG]

Here's an official page permitting it:
http://www.capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/education_and_training/qualified-supervisors/