First Aid Responder

[desert rat]

On the Yahoo CAP Health Services site we have been discussing training as medics.  Hawk mountin already offers this training, but we have no recognition as a medic for cadets or non medical personell.

Since we already have the authorization of a CPR/first aid patch for the BDU uniform I am proposing we have an ES tital of First Aid responder FAR , or EFAR Emergency First Aid Responder, and IFAR instructor First Aid Responder.  This would allow wing to know who all has had first aid training and who is current.  This would be helpful on missions, Sarex, encampments etc..  Afterall on missions the most we would normaly do is firt aid response and not much more.  We don't need a new badge or tital, or ribbon.  We already have the patch.  All we need to add is the ES qualification in the NiMMS.

How do you all feel about this.  It gives us medical officers some training to administer and helps take the load off us for encampments, missions etc.  It also helps to encourage youth to explore medical fields.

I would like to have a west coast version of Hawk Mountin Medic training to get cadets and seniors qualified as First Aid Responder or instructors.  I would be happy with the help of others at setting this up in Nevada or Northern AZ.  We could also look into getting medical professionals to discuss their professions at the training as well.

[swya]

sounds cool  but maybe we could hve one for ems/emt training too

[Pylon]

MIMS already tracks this qualification as a task (denoted on SQTR's as "Complete Basic First Aid Training or Equivalent").   Since you need it for several different ratings, like Ground Team Member 3, if you have that rating, it's already known that you've completed First Aid training. 

As for EMTs and Paramedics, they already receive proof of their training and currrency from the state.  No need to duplicate.

[arajca]

What First Aid patch? I know CPR patches are authorized, but I haven't seen anything in CAPM 39-1 or subsequent policy letters authorizing a First Aid patch.

[desert rat]

CPR is the correct patch, but some CPR training comes with first aid and so the patch lists them both.  I have also seen people wearing CERT patches.   there is even a mountin first aid/CPR patch available.

I was not aware that Nimms had the first aid listed.  I know for ground teams it is part of the training, but so is many things that you would never see others having knowledge of it.  I think it would be better visible if it were an ES specialty and on the 101 cards.

It would be great if people were more known as a first aid responders and when the qualifications expired.   You can be ground team member and have first aid training expired.  It would also encourage cadets to look into medical occupations.  The oversight of the first aid resonder could fall upon wing medical officer and passed down to squadron medical officer and training done by instructor first aid responders.

[arajca]

Give the current legal paranoia over lawsuits, I don't expect to really see anything changing.

One problem CAP has with NIMS (National Incident Management System) is CAP's instance on unique qualifiers and positions. Gradually, this is changing. I recommend going to the NIMS website to review what is happening. There separate typing documents for EMS Resources, Incident Management Resources, and Search and Rescue Resources. These are how the feds, states, tribes, etc classify and order resources. There is no point in creating more CAP specific titles because they aren't going to be ordered, and, despite how we train and what some members think, CAP is not going to the lead agency on a mission. CAP will eventually either become compliant or become irrelevant.

As for the CERT patch, it is not authorized in CAPM 39-1 or subsequent policy letters. It is also not something wing or region commanders can authorize, per CAPM 39-1.

As for medical oversight, you're looking for a Physician Advisor (PA). I don't see any CAP medical personnel volunteering to put their license and livelihood on the line by becoming a PA for their wing, region, or CAP. Nor would I expect them to. There have been discussions with the AF and the Surgeon General of the AF's office about the AF taking on that role, but so far nothing has come of it. Another item is who does the continuing education? And who tracks it? At the unit level, the staff is usually on the verge of being overwhelmed by just keeping the unit functioning that anything that involves additional records, training, etc, especially for only a small number of members, will most likely be dropped as soon as no one is looking or merely be given lip service to placate higher ups. Add to that, most unit don't have Medical Offiers, Nurse Officers, or Health Services Officers.

I've been an EMT-B for 14 years, a fire fighter for 10, and a haz mat tech for 15, so I have some idea of the problems with running an EMS program, which is exactly what you're proposing.

ps. "tital" is not a word. The word you are looking for is "title".

pps. What is Nimms?

[Eclipse]

Exactly - what we need is a mission for which we train to respond, not training for a mission we don't have.

We can make more patches later.

The health services forum, as well as the myriad people are well-intentioned, but I am amzed at how much blingage credit people want for non-CAP skills.

As volunteers with no response commitments or espectation of on-call status, we can never be a first responder agency.  That's ok, it one of the  reasons CAP exists.

But since our core mission does >NOT< contain legal or training support for first responder skills, and some states require people with certain skills TO respond regardless, first responder training becomes more of a liability than an asset.

I don't mean this in the "what if we find a victim,then we'll show you, spirit", I mean this in the same quandries some LEO's find themselves -
their department requires they carry a weapon at all times, CAP forbids it - pick one.

[DNall]

Well, we do have response committments, & are organizationally on-call, that just doesn't filter down to the individual in the traditional way it does with paid folks. You call for a team though & one will show up in a reasonable time.

I understand that point about state laws, but the issue there is they are all different. Mine isn't so specific as to define quals. It say sif you have any qualification whatever that could prevent damage to life or property & refuse to render aid when the opportunity p[resents itself then you are criminally & civily liable. Basic first aid does fall under that, as does the ability to use a DF, or a cell phone for that matter. In a lot of states we're over that liability line already & cannot be otherwise, so you can;t just run from the training & risk that goes with it.

Anyway, I would agree that the liability situation currently restricts us form further involvement, at least until congress takes action to extend further coverage to activated volunteer medical personnel in federal service.

I would also agree that first aid is a requirement of even being in the field, so there is no purpose to an additional qualification. At some point the teams rise to the level of requiring an organic EMT, and even at that point you're talking about too many widespread people to manage at the unit level. All this jsut seems like a non-starter.

[SAR-EMT1]

I've been an EMT-B for 14 years, a fire fighter for 10, and a haz mat tech for 15, so I have some idea of the problems with running an EMS program, which is exactly what you're proposing.

ps. "tital" is not a word. The word you are looking for is "title".

pps. What is Nimms?

You were chasing glowing monkeys before becoming involved in EMS or Fire Suppression?  Ive never heard of that before ...Who were you involved ?

PS- Spell check is always your friend.

[arajca]

Actually, I was in a fire fighter before haz mat or ems. When my fd changed from vol to career, I got out. I kept my hm and ems current as the hm team is volunteer.

[SAR-EMT1]

Back to topic... Desert Rat-
CAP has an insignia for Certified EMS personnel
EMT-Basics get the tech badge, Intermediates get the Senior and Paragods get the Master rating.
It has a BDU cloth counterpart and that allows an IC or GTL to know at a glance, that he has a trained pro ready to take action.
~ Now as for a suitable EMS Jump Kit that you can pack into the wilderness, I posted some links on a previous thread on GT equipment/ composition

As for CADETS... no offense to anyone, but unless you are a cadet who is 18+ and a certified EMT-B or a CFR, I would not utilize you in a medical role (basic first aid aside)   

I am familiar with the Hawk "medics"  but they just don't come close. Its not an accepted certification either outside of PAWG or in the courtroom.

[fyrfitrmedic]

Back to topic... Desert Rat-
CAP has an insignia for Certified EMS personnel
EMT-Basics get the tech badge, Intermediates get the Senior and Paragods get the Master rating.
It has a BDU cloth counterpart and that allows an IC or GTL to know at a glance, that he has a trained pro ready to take action.
~ Now as for a suitable EMS Jump Kit that you can pack into the wilderness, I posted some links on a previous thread on GT equipment/ composition

As for CADETS... no offense to anyone, but unless you are a cadet who is 18+ and a certified EMT-B or a CFR, I would not utilize you in a medical role (basic first aid aside)   

I am familiar with the Hawk "medics"  but they just don't come close. Its not an accepted certification either outside of PAWG or in the courtroom.

Interestingly enough, a number of folks who go through the HMRS program either have or obtain not long thereafter various certifications that are recognized in the real world.  The Mike-squadron program at HMRS seems to be a jumping-off point for those who have or develop an interest in health professions - quite a few physicians, nurses, PAs, paramedics and EMTs have come from within the program.

[DNall]

^ that's nice & evrything, but we aren't the Civil Medical Patrol. There's nothing about our organization that involves exploration of medical fields. BSA has a medical explorer program for that. It's fine that they provide that inspiration, but it's not a focus of CAP that we're supposed to pursue.

We do on the other hand need more EMTs, and I'd favor tailored recruiting programs to attract them as well as scholarship programs to make some (preferably in exchange for a number of years service - yes I know how problematic that is).

[fyrfitrmedic]

^ that's nice & evrything, but we aren't the Civil Medical Patrol. There's nothing about our organization that involves exploration of medical fields. BSA has a medical explorer program for that. It's fine that they provide that inspiration, but it's not a focus of CAP that we're supposed to pursue.

We do on the other hand need more EMTs, and I'd favor tailored recruiting programs to attract them as well as scholarship programs to make some (preferably in exchange for a number of years service - yes I know how problematic that is).

On one hand you're saying that CAP needs EMTs within its ranks, but on the other you're saying that it's wrong to encourage our cadets to become EMTs [or any other sort of health professional]. That's a bit of a disconnect, to put it mildly. I've encountered some top-flight health-care professionals both in and out of the organization that came up through our cadet program and were inspired to their career choices by their cadet experiences. Are you honestly going to tell me that there's something wrong with that?

Before you go and start comparing HMRS' Mike-squadron track [or any equivelent program] to BSA's Explorer program, I strongly suggest that you pick up a bit more knowledge-in-depth on the program.

I agree strongly that CAP could use more EMTs. Scholarship programs may be a viable way to fill this need. However, unless and until NHQ comes up with a better overall recruiting strategy, niche recruiting of EMS personnel probably wouldn't be productive.

[Eclipse]

The program does not need more EMT's as a concept.

There is little to no place for their specific skills within the existing ES operational abilities and allowed activities.

The general "emergent mindset" of most EMT's, yes, but not their actual skills, anymore than we need doctors or helicopter pilots.

[MIKE]

1-21. f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable first aid deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering and executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level.

[desert rat]

Do we need EMTs for CAP missions? Do we need medical officers?  A medical officer is an advisor to the commander.  Can they administer medical exams on CAP people? No, Can they ground a pilot? No, Can they do much of any medical skill?  What they do is help train others in medical minimal skills like first aid etc.  They also help encourge others to seek out medical educations etc.

Do we need baloon pilots or glider pilots or drill instructing on an ES mission?  No, but we still see a value in what they have to teach us.  We even allow people to wear pilots wings for those aviation skills.  The youth learn rocket, and wear a rocket badge, yet that is not an ES mission skill.  The list goes on.

What I am proposing is teaching a first responder skills that adults and youth could easily learn and put to use at home or at CAP functions.  Basic things like dealing with burns, applying a bandage to a minor cut, removing a splinter, dehydration avoydence, understanding hypothermia, insect sting treatment, CPR, etc.  Many people will not chose to be on a ground team and will not go out with those teams.  Why not have some cadets that know these skills and can use them in other areas.  You never know when someone will get a Minor injury at a CAP function or just a routine training day.  Wouldn't it be great if they knew they had a cadet to turn to for help?  For ground teams they can be very handy for the minor accidents to ground team members or other first responders at an incident.

Recognizing a skill like first aid responder with a patch goes a long way towards keeping youth involved in CAP.  It motivates them to learn more and help out.

I was lucky to have been an HPSP (Health Professional Scholarship Program) recipient.  The Army paid my way though dental school.  Most people have no idea about the severe shortages of qualified medical personell in the military.  The services spend alot of money each year recruiting and training officers and enlisted for medical careers.  Most youth do not know of all the opportunities that are available for further training in military medical careers.  We have an opportunity to set up a special program encouraging youth to seek out the training to become a medical specialist for the services.  They may even seek out to become flight nurses or doctors.  An introductory national training event would allow us to expose cadets to a field they may not know they could do.  It may help the military branches fill the growing need for medical help.  If professional volunteers are willing to staff this event then I say, do it.  Why not give out a ribbon and a cadet recognition like, red baret, or badge, or patch so that we keep kids motivated and excited about CAP and military opportunities.  When these youth and seniors come back from a medical national encampment they could be an awsome resource for their squadrons.

[Eclipse]

Do we need baloon pilots or glider pilots or drill instructing on an ES mission?  No, but we still see a value in what they have to teach us.  We even allow people to wear pilots wings for those aviation skills.  The youth learn rocket, and wear a rocket badge, yet that is not an ES mission skill.  The list goes on.

All of the above can fully participate using their skills within the program, without modification to any regs, dialing-down their abilities, or "fudging the line".

Medical professionals cannot.

And just because yo are an EMT or MD, does not mean you are certified to train people in First Aid or anything else.  In most cases the inverse is true.

Do we want medical professionals in CAP?  Yes.  Shoudl we recruit them based on their medical skills, no.

I can recruit a pilot, and he will fly. A Dr., who expects to use his skills in CAP will just get frustrated.

[desert rat]

Bob, it sounds like you have an issue with medical officers.  I would hate to be in your squadron where you don't value the talents of others.

I wouldn't recruit any member based on their occupation or licenses.  I would recruit them based on their desire to serve, and commitment, and morals.  I would want good adults and youth, not pilots or doctors.

Many doctors are pilots.  The number 1 killer of doctors is flying. (probably because so many can afford a plane and don't fly enough to stay proficient)  You would be amazed as to how many medical professionals are trained as CPR instructors and also first aid instructors.  they are also qualified to give continuing medical and dental education much more in detail than a first aid course.  Take a poll sometime and look at all the skills your medical personel bring.

As a medical officer I don't get frustrated because I can't use the skills I use all day at my job.  I actually hope I never ever have to be involved in a CAP rescue.  I will however render first aid to any CAP member at any function I am involved with.  I have also registered myself and my office to be used by the Gov. in the event of an emergency, like a national disaster or epidemic.  I have also recieved CDC training in epidemics and disasters, and FEMA training.  In the State of Nevada dentists and other medical professionals are required to learn how to deal with bioterrorism.   Much of the medical officers in CAP have been militery trained and can command and offer help in other areas outside medicine.

I like to train in some ES, I also like working with cadets and mentoring them.  I am in a continued state of learning and hope to gain much broader skills with CAP and to gain more friendships.  It is not all about being just one thing or another.  I would however help cadets and senior members understand about the opportunties available to them.

[RiverAux]

I've run across a lot of doctors in CAP and not one of them has ever taught a First Aid class, done any ground team "medic" work or anything along those lines.  One of them does flight exams as part of their practice and has occassionaly piped up on medical-related issues during squadron meetings, but as a general rule their professional background has not been of any specific use to CAP.  I'm not saying that this is the case everywhere, just my own experience.