Armed Alaskan GTMs?

[Private Investigator]

As a summary to this thread, no, Alaska Ground Team Members do not carry weapons.

As you guys can probably tell by my username, I really like Alaska and I hope to live there some day, I was just wondering if the Armed GTMs rumor is true.

Wait till you experience Hawaii. 

Ground teams are typically unarmed here, too.  :-)

When I visited Kauai there would be wild chickens running around on the sidewalks and would be basically everywhere we went. That has to be a pain in the rear end.

P.S. Kauai is definitely one of the better islands to visit if you are ever going to Hawaii. 

Kauai is my favorite island. I stopped at McDonalds for my favorite Hawaiian breakfast, spam, eggs and rice. I could not believe chickens on the grass in front of McDonalds   

[Major Lord]

Its strangely perverted to know that somewhere in the world, there is an an entire culture that loves Spam... I guess if you can eat poi, Spam seems almost a delicacy!

Major Lord

[PHall]

Its strangely perverted to know that somewhere in the world, there is an an entire culture that loves Spam... I guess if you can eat poi, Spam seems almost a delicacy!

Major Lord

And what's wrong with Poi?

[Equinox]

Who needs a gun when you can chop that bear down with a machete?!!

[ol'fido]

Who needs a gun when you can chop that bear down with a machete?!!

You try that and let us know how that work's for ya, OK. Or, have your Next of Kin do it.

[Garibaldi]

Who needs a gun when you can chop that bear down with a machete?!!

You try that and let us know how that work's for ya, OK. Or, have your Next of Kin do it.

Standing over a steaming pile of bear dung..."Yeah, I guess we were wrong about that guy. He DID amount to..."

Sorry, just had to say it.

[RRLE]

Who needs a gun when you can chop that bear down with a machete?!!

You try that and let us know how that work's for ya, OK. Or, have your Next of Kin do it.

No can do. Machete don't text.

[JeffDG]

Oh yeah, I still keep bear spray with my gear.

[Ed Bos]

A tried-and-true method of differentiating between Black Bears and Brown (or Grizzly) Bears when you happen up on them in the wild is to kick them in the hind quarters and climb up a nearby tree.

If the animal climbs up the tree after you to eat your face, it's a Black Bear.

If the animal pushes the tree over and then eats your face, it's a Brown Bear.

Everyone is welcome to come up North and do some GSAR training with us whenever they wish.

[Major Lord]

Sometimes a gun is the right tool for the job. Like that situation in Colorado. Very CAP-like thinking going on there....Its a good thing that none of those law abiding citizens had a gun with them, otherwise someone might have got hurt! Don't go to bear country, a theatre, a church, or a big city,without one, unless you can count on the bears having read the rule book and watched the power point ahead of time.

Major Lord

[PHall]

Sometimes a gun is the right tool for the job. Like that situation in Colorado. Very CAP-like thinking going on there....Its a good thing that none of those law abiding citizens had a gun with them, otherwise someone might have got hurt! Don't go to bear country, a theatre, a church, or a big city,without one, unless you can count on the bears having read the rule book and watched the power point ahead of time.

Major Lord

The guy was wearing body armour and a pretty complete set at that.
Unless you think you could have made a "Mission Impossible" style face shot in low light conditions after being gassed while not getting shot by the guy with the full auto AR with a 300 round snail mag you would have been totally outgunned and probably just another victim.

[Major Lord]

So are you arguing that passively standing by in that situation and hoping that someone else gets shot would be the wise, CAP-type thing to do? Roughly 80% of the people nation-wide who responded with physical force to potentially lethal violence in the workplace survived the assault. Fighting back (or running away) is/are the best possible strategy. Tactically, one good guy taking a shot from a theater full of seats at a guy against a lighted movie screen back stop makes the odds of getting off an aimed round or three ( two in chest, one in head) fairly probable. Have you ever tried to aim and fire wearing  gas mask? Its not so easy. Yes, I think anyone could have at least slowed him down with a bullet hitting center mass,clipping off a finger, hitting a knee cap, etc. Beats the heck out of begging for mercy.  Doing nothing and relying on the bad guy running out of ammo worked so well the last time they had a multi-homicide of this nature in Colorado......its now pretty much holy writ that the best response to an active shooter is an active shooter. Its been a few years now since anyone has shot at me, but as I recall, shooting back made a pretty darn good defense.

Major Lord

[PHall]

A gun fight in a theater full of people who are in full scale panic. Yeah, there's an idea!

Oh and Alan, yes I have fired weapons while in full MOPP 4. But full auto and a 300 round mag would probably mitagate the effects of the mask. (i.e. volume of fire vs aimed fire. You put enough rounds out and you will hit something!)

[Major Lord]

Where did you get the info that he had a full auto weapon? I did not see that in the media. Doesn't really matter, people miss even more often when they shoot full auto then they do when shooting semi-auto and actually take the time to acquire a sight. Its not like dualing in a locked clost with hand grenades.

Major Lord

[CAP4117]

Major Lord, I find it distasteful that you would bring the tragedy in CO into this discussion, talk about "CAP-like" behavior in that context, and then try to use it to voice your opinions about gun control.
The fact is that we will never know what could have happened if the situation had been different. Speculating only disrespects the victims and their families by turning their personal tragedy into fodder for a highly politicized debate, during an election year no less.
Regardless of how any of us feels about it, I don't really think that CT is the venue for such a discussion.

I think we should go back to discussing bears. Or CAP. Or bears in CAP.

/rant

[ol'fido]

According to the Aurora PD chief at a news conference, it was an AR-15 with a 100 rd drum, Remington 870 12 ga., and 2 Glocks(.40 S&W).

PHall- In a way, you are right. A person with a CCW who tried to take on a gunman in the amount of body armor and as heavily armed as he was may not have been effective. They may have become a casualty themselves.

But that's not the point.

The point is that whether you know you will be effective or not, whether or not you will survive, or whether you will be hurt or not, there should have been somebody who stood their ground and tried to stop him. There are evil people in the world with guns. But there are more good people with guns. And if they have the chance, they will stand their ground.

In the movies, they like to use that line(with several variations) that there are two kinds of people in the world, hunters and prey, or wolves and sheep. Well, there are three kinds of people in the world, wolves, sheep, and the SHEEPDOGS. Dave Grossman who wrote ON Killing and On Combat coined this term to describe the warriors and protectors of our society. They are the cops, the soldiers, the firefighters, the EMS guys, and even the ordinary citizens who stand up and say, "NO!" when evil people try to hurt the innocent.

If there had been a sheepdog in that theater, he might have been killed, but he also may have saved a few lives that were lost. If we have people who always play it safe, we are doomed as a society.

I like to think that CAP members are sheepdogs to some extent in that we will not stand for bad things to happen to good people. We don't stand our ground with shot and shell, but service and dedication. But we stand our ground.

So, Maj Lord is right too. One good person with a CCW who was armed might have made just enough of a difference.

[Major Lord]

Major Lord, I find it distasteful that you would bring the tragedy in CO into this discussion, talk about "CAP-like" behavior in that context, and then try to use it to voice your opinions about gun control.
The fact is that we will never know what could have happened if the situation had been different. Speculating only disrespects the victims and their families by turning their personal tragedy into fodder for a highly politicized debate, during an election year no less.
Regardless of how any of us feels about it, I don't really think that CT is the venue for such a discussion.

I think we should go back to discussing bears. Or CAP. Or bears in CAP.

/rant

I am sorry if you were offended or missed my point, my point is not about gun control laws. Colorado is actually fairly gun-friendly. This relates to CAP, in  that a Corporation ( the theater) created an environment in which otherwise lawfully armed gun owners could not be armed by policies restricting carrying of firearms in the Theater. (it is their option in Colorado Law as to whether they permit guns on their premises, CAP has no legal authority for it's policy, its just an internal breech, not something you can go to jail for) CAP's policy of depriving its members of the correct safety tools to do the job is the politicization of the issue. I have spent hundreds of hours working as a threat assessment consultant, , executive protection agent, and "Pacifier" ( Sent it to cool hostile workplace situations) and have been accepted as an expert witness in the field of workplace violence. I have been on both ends of a firearm in real life. There is no question that the number one winning strategy in workplace violence is to fight back, and to do so as quickly as possible, even if that only means throwing your drink in his face and rushing the assailant with a group of "sheepdogs" ( as the esteemed Colonel pointed out) Bunching up in the "death funnel" of the exit and screaming is not such a good idea.

Not being an expert in bears, I can't  truly know if rushing an attacking bear armed only with your trusty leatherman tool or Machete ( I always left my machete in the car anyway) is a sound policy, but my limited experience with campground bears suggest they will run if you make a lot of noise, and my experience with back-country bears is that they tend to feint rushes, and back off if you make enough noise and back away. As I understand it, most bear-related  deaths are a result of people inadvertently coming too close to a Mama Bear's cubs, or in some cases lying in your sleeping bag and imitating prey by crying. Taking down a bear with a pistol is a tall order, but if it is a matter of last resort, it may be your only option. Bears are big game, humans are "thin skinned" game, and even something as small as taking a .22 round in the foot is often enough to take the fight out of a bad guy.
In one course I took conducted by an Israeli security company, we were taught to focus on head-shots ( to avoid setting off explosive vests) and failing that to take femur or pelvic girdle shots, since these will tend to leave the bad guy immobile, so you can take your time with follow up shots to the brain stem. I suspect that taking non-lethal, non-incapacitating shots to a charging 'Griz is not going to throw it off its game. (humans are conditioned to lie down and die when shot by watching too much television. In fact, most handgun shootings are not fatal; I suspect there are a few on this board who have taken a hit with a pistol and kept on ticking)

Major Lord

[RADIOMAN015]

Is this discussion really just a mute (moot -- corrected) point   I haven't seen ANY press releases/press coverage that even shows Alaska wing is using ground teams for actual mission .  The press I've seen indicates a CAP aircraft spots the wreckage and the ANG or USCG helo units (or the State Police) fly into the crash site or if close enough the nearest town's public safety responds on ATV's or snow mobiles.
RM     

[Garibaldi]

Is this discussion really just a mute point   I haven't seen ANY press releases/press coverage that even shows Alaska wing is using ground teams for actual mission .  The press I've seen indicates a CAP aircraft spots the wreckage and the ANG or USCG helo units (or the State Police) fly into the crash site or if close enough the nearest town's public safety responds on ATV's or snow mobiles.
RM   

moot, not mute /pedantic

[Critical AOA]

Is this discussion really just a mute point   I haven't seen ANY press releases/press coverage that even shows Alaska wing is using ground teams for actual mission .  The press I've seen indicates a CAP aircraft spots the wreckage and the ANG or USCG helo units (or the State Police) fly into the crash site or if close enough the nearest town's public safety responds on ATV's or snow mobiles.
RM   

moot, not mute /pedantic

Ah, but if a bear growls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, is it a mute bear?  Or is that another moot point?