The Search for the Kim Family

[A.Member]

Now another way to look at this is from the point of the "Kims" of this world.

You are traveling during the winter, what are the best things to have in your vehical?

For years since I traveled extensivly in New England during the winter I had a backpack containing most things that would help me survive in the winter should I be stranded.  I traveled in a 300 mile plus radius from Mass.  Now I am in Western NY and travel the backroads.. easy to get lost in the hills.

Partial list: I had (and still have) some MRE's, crackers, water in packets, water filter pump, 100 hour candles, the silverized space blankets in packets (4), toilet paper, fishing line and tackle, survival knife, signal mirror, strobe light, bandaids and other medical gear, waterproof matches, flashlight and batteries, pens, paper, extra gloves, and wool caps, wool socks, wool blanket... etc..  all this fit in one backpack.

An excellent point on the need for people in certain climates to have winter survival kits in their vehicles as well.

There is still no guarantee that she would have been found had she stayed with the car, and after 9 days with no signs of pending rescue, I certainly do not fault the man for thinking it is time to try to get help.......for all he knew, they weren't even being looked for. Had neither of them left the car, the headlines could have easily read "Family of Four Found Dead in Oregon Wilderness" as the car itself was still not found until after she and the kids were; we don't know how far away they were from the car at the time or if the car itself would have been seen as it might have even been under bushes.

You're missing the point.  We know for a fact, the rest of the family was found alive with the car. 

You can speculate all day long if you want - I'm not going to do that.  Could they have died if they stayed with the car?  Sure, given enough time, it's a possiblity.  However, we know that they didn't.  It's been documented time and again:  by far the highest probability (note: not a guarantee) for survivial is staying with the vehicle.

Another thing people should do, particularily on long road trips, is make sure they communicate their travel plan with someone ahead of time and check in periodically.  It's just like filing a flight plan - if no one is expecting you, then how do you expect people to know to look for you?   

[Chris Jacobs]

Actually that survival kit reminds me of a mission we had about a year ago here in Oregon.  It was almost an identical mission to the Kim family.  A husband and wife were going to a resort in the mountains when they decided they would take a back road.  They got stuck in the snow and stayed with the car.  Although they had plenty of winter clothing, food and water and some other survival stuff.  I even think that they put something on their roof, i think it was a blue tarp but now i cant remember.  But when the sheriff road up the road on a snowmobile and found them after they had been stuck for about 5 days, he found them in perfect condition.  They did every thing right, including the survival pack.

[floridacyclist]

You're missing the point.  We know for a fact, the rest of the family was found alive with the car. 

Correction: They were found a short distance from the car as they had just set out on foot to seek help or die trying. As far as we know, the car itself was not spotted first, her umbrella was.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the premise of staying with the vehicle being the best course of action, but after 9 days of not even knowing if you are being looked for and watching your family slowly creeping closer to death, leaving on foot to seek help seems like a reasonable action to take and one that I can't fault him for. You can point out that they were eventually found if you want, but you only know that in hindsight; we weren't there on the ground with this man. I still maintain that he did nothing wrong; he stayed with the car for 9 days and only then chose to seek help on foot rather than watch his children die.

To me, the saddest part is that he died not knowing that they had been rescued.

[shorning]

[RiverAux]

While I'm not saying that this isnt' true (it probably is), but does anyone have a citation for research on incidents in which people have been stranded in their car which says the best course of action is to stay with the car? 

[A.Member]

While I'm not saying that this isnt' true (it probably is), but does anyone have a citation for research on incidents in which people have been stranded in their car which says the best course of action is to stay with the car? 

That's a great question.  I haven't seen any quantative numbers.  The National Weather Service tracks fatalities due to storms (see: Weather Fatalities )but they don't have the detail needed to answer your question.  For example, in 2004, according to their numbers the most hazardous place to be during a winter storm was in a vehicle - 71% of all victims.  However, I that statistic is really representative of storm related "traffic" accidents more so than the situation being discussed here.  There's also an old video (it's actually from the mid-80's) called "Surviving the Cold" that used real stories to illustrate points - but I don't think they have "the bigger picture" with actual statistics.

Some related info on Winter Safety (but no real numbers):
ABC:  Surviving When Your Car Gets Stuck in Snow
NWS Winter Storms
Stalled...but Safe
Staying put is the key to winter survival when stranded
CNN Winter Survival
Subaru: Outdoor Survival
The Combat Edge - page 30

That winter survival kit is important!  Be prepared.

[DNall]

Just a quick note. As rescue workers, and many of us qual'd as staff members that decide where & when to search, it is useful to tabletop the psychology of survivors. You do have to get in theri head & try to figure out what they might have done & why & look at different things like thinking they are in another spot.

It is also useful to ask INTERNALLY why CAP was NOT called on this search. I gurantee you if it were in Iowa they'd have been out there in one capacity or another. The relationship each of our Wgs has w/ local & state authorities varries widely, & that even varries on what type of mission you're talking about. Sounds to me like yu need to focus on meeting the NIMS standards & building trust across agency lines in the emergency response community. Crying about woulda coulda shoulda, ESPECIALLY when you get specific about this one situation AND do so quickly after this tragic & heroic but ill-fated death, that's not just the wrong kind of PR, that's just flat wrong.

Beyond those couple comments, I don't know enough about the actual situation, nor do I trust hind-sight media reconstructions so soon after, and I don't know enough about the Wing involved or their relationships & history with local & state authorities on missing person searches in winter conditions, nor the qual's of their people or if those are publicized to the appropriate authorities.... So basically I can't comment intelligently past what I already said. This is the kind of story that after some time has passed I might use as fodder for a table-top, but otherwise I'd advise some caution.

[RiverAux]

It is also useful to ask INTERNALLY why CAP was NOT called on this search.

No matter how much politicing CAP does you always have to remember that no one is under any more obligation to use us as they are some random volunteer off the street.  I bet there are other search organizations in the area that also did not particpate. 

I agree that CAP does not spend nearly enough time on "customer relations" but that will only take you so far. 

Lets also face the facts that CAP can only provide very limited services in the vast majority of the country.  Sure, we can usually guarantee that we can send a plane or two out just about anywhere, but those are generally of very limited use in most lost person searches.  Could they be made more capable?  Sure, but for the forseable future we have to deal with what we have.  In a case where the lost persons are in a vehicle, yes CAP would be of much more use than normal with a lost-in-the-woods scenario. 

But, as to providing meaningful ground search assistance no one is going to count on CAP.  Most Wings would struggle to field more than 1 5-10 person ground team for a weeday search.  That won't add much to the overall resources available.  Plus, lets face it, no one is going to take CAP ground teams very seriously when they're made up of young teenagers no matter what training they've had. 

To answer your comment, there isn't really anything new here.  More than likely it was due to a failure on the part of both the nearest squadron ES officer and the Wing ES officer to maintain adequate relationships with local authorities as they are supposed to.  However, you must account for the possibility that the folks running the search are jerks who might not have wanted any outsiders involved no matter how qualified.   

[dbaran]

It is also useful to ask INTERNALLY why CAP was NOT called on this search.

It is also really important that we ask external organizations so we have an understanding of what we need to do to be prepared to help the next time a situation like this arises.

A few months back, we decided to investigate why CAP in central CA wasn't getting called by the local sherriff.   It turns out that they don't want anyone involved in ground searches unless they have completed the "First Responder" first aid training.   The standard CAP requirement is much lower (basic first aid).    Our recommendation to people was that they take the first responder course so that they'll have a better chance of being used. 

One can be "qualified" as far as CAP is concerned, but one really needs to be qualified to the extent required by the lead agency in the search, which is often not CAP.

[A.Member]

Plus, lets face it, no one is going to take CAP ground teams very seriously when they're made up of young teenagers no matter what training they've had. 

Interesting point and I don't disagree.  It can be quite a stigma to overcome.  So, how do we do it effectively?  Well, to build on the comments from your previous post, we start truly quantifying our work.  It makes for a better sales pitch and having metrics helps us measure our performance.  In doing so, we can increase our effectiveness through improved training and in turn our overall value to the community and the Air Force.

As an organization we need to track the number of real missing persons missions (this includes downed aircraft).  We then need to identify how many of those missions we participated in resulted in a find/recovery (either by CAP or a particpating organization) .  Of those finds, we need to identify how many were actual CAP finds.  Easy, right?...we have this info already.  However, to my knowledge (and I'm sure there are exceptions) we do not put this together effectively at National, Region, Wing, or, in many cases, Squadron levels.  I challenge you to find this info on any CAP website.  This data must be drilled down further and exploited - it's critical to selling our services and building that trust with other agencies, whether they be local or federal.

As a hypothetical example, at each level (National, Region, Wing, Squadron) we should be able to say:
* Squadron X particpated in 30 missing aircraft and persons missions in 2006.
* 28 of those missions resulted in the location of the missing aircraft/person (~93% success rate - this could be broken down into actual lives saved as well as recovery)
* In 25 of the 28 finds, CAP teams were the first to locate the missing aircraft/person (~89% of all finds)

This info should be prominently displayed on websites, communications, etc.  When presented in such a way, the numbers are so much more powerful than simply saying "100 lives on average saved per year" - that's really a pretty empty statement.  We could augment such metrics with average response size (ex. Squadron X averages 15 members per mission, etc.).  Even if the numbers aren't worth bragging about outside the organization, it gets those within the organization thinking about these things more consciously.  Instead, as an active participant in the organization, I don't even know this info.

[RiverAux]

I definetely agree that CAP has done a very poor job of either keeping the records at NHQ level, or if they are keeping them, they certainly keep them to themselves.

Frankly, I think the problems is that the NHQ ES people seem to keep to themselves.  The paid staff do not really make use of the volunteers out there who could do valuable things such as keep track and analyze this sort of data. 

You can get some minimal information on the web page, but they haven't updated the simple excel spreadsheets with AFRCC missions since FY04. 

[Hotel 179]

 

You can get some minimal information on the web page, but they haven't updated the simple excel spreadsheets with AFRCC missions since FY04. 


[/quote]

Hello All,

I call AFRCC at the close of the mission and give them the stats from the CAPF122....this has all of the information that an earlier post mentioned.  Have you set up a WMIRS account?  You can see every mission flown, or driven (if it was input).

Semper vi, y'all.

Stephen

[A.Member]

I call AFRCC at the close of the mission and give them the stats from the CAPF122....this has all of the information that an earlier post mentioned.  Have you set up a WMIRS account?  You can see every mission flown, or driven (if it was input).

But no one is making effective use of the data.  That's the issue.  We know the underlying data exists (or should exist) if we dig hard enough.  It needs to be grouped logically, brought forward, and exploited.

[Hotel 179]

Roger that....do you have a WMIRS account set up?  I get in there all the time and look at what everyone is doing.  There is a nation-wide status map for missions and aircraft status....interesting reading.

Stephen

[A.Member]

do you have a WMIRS account set up?  I get in there all the time and look at what everyone is doing.  There is a nation-wide status map for missions and aircraft status....interesting reading.

I do but haven't poked around much. (sts)  Maybe I need to...

[RiverAux]

I did a little poking around but you really need some summary statistics to be useful.  I would hope that they would be doing that somewhere. 

[ELTHunter]

The last time I was in WMIRS, last week, it appeared that they are now only allowing people to see missions in their own Wing.

[A.Member]

The last time I was in WMIRS, last week, it appeared that they are now only allowing people to see missions in their own Wing.

That is what I found as well - data for my Wing only.  I don't know...perhaps there are different levels of auth.?

I did a little poking around but you really need some summary statistics to be useful.  I would hope that they would be doing that somewhere. 

Agreed.  Aggregates for given periods of times at the various levels are really what is needed.  I also found some key data elements to be missing.  Obviously, reports are only as good as the underlying data but it's a start.  We could identify areas where data collection falls short.

[Hotel 179]

The last time I was in WMIRS, last week, it appeared that they are now only allowing people to see missions in their own Wing.

That is what I found as well - data for my Wing only.  I don't know...perhaps there are different levels of auth.?

Hello, All.

On the left side of the WMIRS menu is a drop-down window that says "Tools and Utilities"....click there and see if it gives you the Report options as well as the National Mission Status and Aircraft Availability.

Semper vi,

Stephen

[Lancer]

News Update Bump...

http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2006/1231/local/stories/civilairpatrolwoes.htm

Civil Air Patrol wanted to help in Kim family search

But their planes wouldn't have helped much in steep canyon terrain, sheriff says

Chris conrad
Mail Tribune

As the Josephine County Sheriff's Office sits sandwiched between reviews mandated by Gov. Ted Kulongoski and the Oregon State Sheriff's Association for its role in searching for the stranded Kim family, members of the local Civil Air Patrol wonder if they could've made a difference in the outcome.

But Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said enough of the right resources were in on the search in rugged mountainous terrain that wasn't suited to CAP's Cessna airplanes.

Robert Soltz, a five-year pilot with the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), described how he watched helplessly as rescue teams from all across the state combed the forests east of Merlin searching for the San Francisco family.

James and Kati Kim and their two young daughters got lost the night of Nov. 25 trying to cross Bear Camp Road through the Siskiyou National Forest during a winter storm. Days later, James Kim died of exposure while attempting to walk out for help.

And just as when the Higginbotham family got lost for two weeks in March on a remote road west of Glendale on their way to the coast, the Civil Air Patrol could do nothing but watch the drama unfold on television.

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"We were never called, never asked for our expertise," Soltz said.

The CAP is a federally funded group of volunteers who aid law enforcement in searches when air surveillance is needed. They fly small Cessna planes outfitted with complex search equipment. They have one plane stationed permanently at the Medford Airport and six throughout the state, Soltz said.

"This is a free resource that is not being utilized," he added. "If it was a money issue I could understand it."

Soltz said the last time the CAP was called out for a search was in 2003.

And though Soltz acknowledges that no one can predict if the Kim story would've had a happy ending if the CAP was involved in the search, he is left wondering why they were never called to help.

In Oregon, the local sheriff's department acts as the first responder in searches. They have to make the call to the CAP when needed.

Winters said he isn't simply ignoring the CAP, they just weren't suited for the Kim or Higginbotham searches.

"Their (planes) aren't effective in deep canyon searches," Winters explained. "We had helicopters from all over in the area. A 'copter is better for searching in tall timber because it can fly at a lower altitude and can be used to drop teams into the site."

He also noted that having too many aircraft buzzing around a tight area could spell danger. In Winters' mind, there was enough traffic in the sky during the Kim search.

"I'm aware of the (CAP) and they're a good bunch of guys over there," the sheriff said. "If we need them, we'll call. They're just another tool in the toolbox."

Winters did say he would be meeting with CAP Capt. Larry Kendrick soon to iron out any differences the agencies may have. The meeting could happen right around the first of the year, he said.

Reach reporter Chris Conrad at 776-4471, or e-mail cconrad@mailtribune.com.