Our pilots would like our wing to put some sort of markings on the roof of our vehicles so they are visible from the air.  What do other wings do?  Anyone have an "best practices" out there?

Thanks!

Oh no!  It's back!

Reference CAPR 77-1:

Quote
3-5. COV Appearance, Identification and Marking. COVs shall be maintained to the highest possible standard in order to reflect a positive image for the organization. With the exception of golf cart type utility vehicles, all COVs are to be marked in accordance with this regulation. Appropriate markings are as follows:

a. A vehicle identification number consisting of five digits (using 2-inch black numerals) shall be affixed to the lower left rear of hatch door on van type vehicles (see attachment 3). On trucks, affix numerals on lower left tailgate and on sedans affix numbers to the lower left bumper. The first two digits are the region or wing vehicle identity number. Example: 01XXX for Alabama, 23XXX for Missouri, 93XXX for Great Lakes Region, etc., (see attachment 4). Reuse of vehicles identity numbers is not authorized for a period of 1 year.

b. Only permanently affixed CAP emblem door decals shall be used on COVs. Magnetic door emblems are not authorized. These decals are to be centered on left and right driver compartment doors. Door emblems containing "US" can remain on vehicles until they must be replaced due to wear or fading. A decal featuring the CAP website shall be placed under the CAP emblem on side doors and centered on the rear of the vehicle. A CAP banner decal shall be placed on both sides of vans (see attachment 3). All CAP vehicle decals are available through NHQ CAP/LGT.

c. Rescue vehicle marking must conform to federal, state and local laws. The type of light bar used on vehicles must be approved in writing by the wing commander (region commander if a region vehicle) and must follow the narrowest guidelines established by the resident state and all surrounding states. Colors used on approved light bars will be amber or amber/white. Red and blue colors on light bars or the use of sirens are not authorized for use on any CAP vehicle.

Nope, don't see anything about marking the roof.

My wing does nothing.  The vans are bit white vehicles, easily spotted from the air, especially at our working altitudes.

No roof markings necessary.

IIRC, the NCAC hacked this up in the past and while it seemed like a swell idea, national wasn't going to pay for it so it didn't happen.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1143.msg14430#msg14430

I don't have much time doing air searches, I'm a MS-T with only one sortie, but I seem to remember those vehicles being relatively small even at search altitude.  I don't know how much numbers on top of the vehicle would help.  I would think that you'd need something bigger for it to be worthwhile.  What are you going to do at night?

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 02, 2011, 05:04:24 PM
...  What are you going to do at night?

That's easy - tritium paint like the old compasses.   Or you could use radium paint and then find it with a geiger counter... 

The NCAC?

At one point they were mandated, then  there an argument over what was to be used, and the expense, and then it was rescinded.

he requirement to paint distinctive roof markings for CAP vehicles was repealed by the March 2007 National Board. See note below.

In order to enhance Emergency Services operations, the August 2006 National Board approved the addition of distinctive roof markings for CAP vehicles. The memorandum contained detailed instructions for the design and application of those markings. They were effective upon receipt and were to be incorporated into the next edition of CAPR 77-1, Operation and Maintenance of CAP Vehicles.(Repealed by the March 2007 National Board)


March 2007 National Board Executive Summary of Agenda Items
LG CAP Vehicle Roof Markings
- Agenda item to repeal earlier decision to mandate orange triangle on roofs of CAP vehicles
- Passed


And based on the above quote, I would hazard they are not only unnecessary, but not authorized.

I would question that roof markings are not necessary -- there are an awful lot of white vans on the road, at least here in NER!

Several years ago there was a push locally to get all vehicles marked with a large orange triangle pointing in the direction of travel with the radio call sign of the vehicle behind it.  Considering how many plain white vans are on the road, it does help.  The decals were large, I think a 2 foot triangle and 18" numbers.

That wasn't local that was the national mandate that lasted about 6 months (see above).

The number of times that an aircraft would need to identify a CAP vehicle in a crowd of other vehicles approaches zero, and certainly doesn't
justify the cost.  Generally there is one, maybe two in the area, and in those cases they are usually by themselves.

Roof markings are needed when there are multiple identical vehicles (like police cars), and proper identification might be a life-safety issue or needed
later for legal identification.  That's just not a situation CAP encounters enough to justify the effort.

As I recall the cost was in the neighborhood of $3-500 per vehicle with installation.  The decals themselves were expensive and if not installed properly
were coming off in car washes and with regular use.

I know I saw a couple competed vehicles, but can't find any of the pics.

Quote from: Eclipse on August 02, 2011, 05:00:23 PM
My wing does nothing.  The vans are bit white vehicles, easily spotted from the air, especially at our working altitudes.

No roof markings necessary.

HAHAHAHA.  Do you know how many White vans there on on the road?  THOUSANDS!

Bright orange magnetic signs work ok.

Quote from: RiverAux on August 02, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Bright orange magnetic signs work ok.

Only if there's no roof rack. This isn't as big an issue on real vans, but many SUVs, including my personal 'Burb, have them, and any sort of roof marking becomes tedious and complicated.

Quote from: RiverAux on August 02, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Bright orange magnetic signs work ok.

Not on the roof.

If they are not applied properly, or not the correct magnetic strength, all it takes is a loose corner on the highway and the next thing you know
your arrow is on the windshield of the vehicle behind you.

Also, if you put them on over dirt, then can scratch the surface, which on a roof, especially, can cause corrosion quickly.

They are also easily stolen, which is likely the reason for the ban on mag signs on COVs.

Quote from: EmergencyManager6 on August 02, 2011, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on August 02, 2011, 05:00:23 PM
My wing does nothing.  The vans are bit white vehicles, easily spotted from the air, especially at our working altitudes.

No roof markings necessary.

Do you know how many White vans there on on the road?  THOUSANDS!

What's your point?

Unless the "thousands" of vans are in the same vicinity of the CAP vehicle the aircraft is interacting with, how many others there are is irrelevant, and
the odds of another white van, let alone "thousands" of them being in the vicinity of a CAP vehicle interacting with an aircraft are slim to none, since rarely do we do a/g coordination on busy highways and streets.

Further, we are rarely tasked with searching for our own vehicles, and even more rare is that search at the Ford commercial vehicle assembly parking lot.

Back in the day this is what one wing did to their vehicles



http://isuhawkeye.blogspot.com/2007/10/vehicle-markings.html

I have had numerous aircrews tell me how difficult it is to spot a CAP vehicle from the air among the many vehicles on the road. And air/ground coordination without radio is a skill we are supposed to have. Markings seem like they would help a lot. We don't need numbers, or anything fancy. Just some bright lines to distinguish the CAP vehicle from the rest. Like maybe...

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/3M-Conspicuity-Tape-4TDV4

Laid out as a double arrow pointing in the direction of vehicle travel.

\  /
\\//
 \/

Quote from: SarDragon on August 02, 2011, 07:15:09 PM

Quote from: RiverAux on August 02, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Bright orange magnetic signs work ok.

Only if there's no roof rack. This isn't as big an issue on real vans, but many SUVs, including my personal 'Burb, have them, and any sort of roof marking becomes tedious and complicated.

Hood.

Eclipse...have you ever flown in a CAP aircraft and tried to find a van?

"I have had numerous aircrews tell me how difficult it is to spot a CAP vehicle from the air among the many vehicles on the road"

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.