saluting

[JoeTomasone]

Are we clear? Issue settled?


Anything else to argue about...WMIRS anyone?

I wanted to argue with A.Member about saluting C/Col's but Big Mike shut me down.  

[MIKE]

I wanted to argue with A.Member about saluting C/Col's but Big Mike shut me down.  

Big Mike?  Well within height and weight standards.

[ColonelJack]

I'm guessing he meant "Big Mike" in terms of the absolute power wielded by your most moderating self.

...I'm just sayin'...

Jack

[CadetProgramGuy]

Walk softly and carry a big locking stick......

[JoeTomasone]

I'm guessing he meant "Big Mike" in terms of the absolute power wielded by your most moderating self.

...I'm just sayin'...

And sayin' correctly...   Abandon all hope, all ye who cross Big (but apparently within standards) Mike!

[lordmonar]

I get an image of Mike as a sort of royalty.....'We are not amused.......lock".

[Capt Rivera]

8.1.1.1. When the salute is rendered to another person, the junior member initiates the salute accompanied with an appropriate verbal greeting, e.g., Good Morning, Sir/Ma'am." Salute and extend the verbal greeting at a distance at which recognition is easy and audible. Offer your salute early enough to allow the senior time to return it and extend a verbal greeting before you pass. All salutes received when in uniform shall be returned; at other times, salutes received shall be appropriately acknowledged.

Emphasis mine.

I'll look into this tomorrow... but I doubt the context is correct...  Still ome fight in me yet

[aveighter]

By the rude bridge that
  arched the flood,
Their flag to Aprils
  breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled
  farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard
  round the world.

Don't you love poetry? 

I bet the guy that wrote that never engaged in some pansy argument about saluting whilst dropping a hand from the reins for a second or two.  He was probably spending his limited time in somewhat more pressing tasks.

By the way, I was at Columbus AFB last weekend.  With the base speed limit (like most bases) ranging from 15 - 25 mph in most areas I was able to salute with both hands and shake a leg at the same time while maintaining complete control of my vehicle.  I practised with a regimen of walking and gum chewing for two weeks prior.  Highly recommend it.

[Capt Rivera]

8.1.1.1. When the salute is rendered to another person, the junior member initiates the salute accompanied with an appropriate verbal greeting, e.g., Good Morning, Sir/Ma'am." Salute and extend the verbal greeting at a distance at which recognition is easy and audible. Offer your salute early enough to allow the senior time to return it and extend a verbal greeting before you pass. All salutes received when in uniform shall be returned; at other times, salutes received shall be appropriately acknowledged.

Emphasis mine.

110 AFPAM36-2241V1 1 JULY 2005
7.6. Saluting.
The salute is a courteous exchange of greetings, with the junior member always saluting the senior member first. A
salute is also rendered to the flag as a sign of respect. Any Airman, noncommissioned officer (NCO), or officer
recognizing a need to salute or a need to return one may do so anywhere at any time. When returning or rendering an individual salute, the head and eyes are turned toward the flag or person saluted. When in ranks, the position of
attention is maintained unless otherwise directed. Guidance when exchanging salutes includes:
7.6.1. Outdoors.
Salutes are exchanged upon recognition between officers or warrant officers and enlisted members of the
Armed Forces when they are in uniform. Saluting outdoors means salutes are exchanged when the persons
involved are outside of a building. For example, if a person is on a porch, a covered sidewalk, a bus stop, a
covered or open entryway, or a reviewing stand, the salute will be exchanged with a person on the sidewalk
outside of the structure or with a person approaching or in the same structure. This applies both on and off
military installations. The junior member should initiate the salute in time to allow the senior officer to return
it. To prescribe an exact distance for all circumstances is not practical; however, good judgment should
dictate when salutes are exchanged. A superior carrying articles in both hands need not return the salute, but
he or she should nod in return or verbally acknowledge the salute. If the junior member is carrying articles in
both hands, verbal greetings should be exchanged. Also, use the same procedures when greeting an officer of
a foreign nation. Use these procedures in:
7.6.1.1. Formation. Members do not salute or return a salute unless given the command to do so. Normally
the person in charge salutes and acknowledges salutes for the whole formation.
7.6.1.2. Groups, But Not in Formation. When a senior officer approaches, the first individual noticing the
officer calls the group to attention. All members face the officer and salute. If the officer addresses an
individual or the group, all remain at attention (unless otherwise ordered) until the end of the conversation, at
which time they salute the officer.
7.6.1.3. Public Gatherings. Salutes between individuals are not required in public gatherings, such as
sporting events or meetings, or when a salute would be inappropriate or impractical.
7.6.1.4. Moving Military Vehicles. Exchange of salutes between military pedestrians (including gate
sentries) and officers in moving military vehicles is not mandatory. However, when officer passengers are
readily identifiable (for example, officers in appropriately marked vehicles), the salute must be rendered.
7.6.1.5. The Presence of Civilians. Persons in uniform may salute civilians. The President of the United
States, as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, is always accorded the honor of a salute. In addition, if
the exchange of salutes is otherwise appropriate, it is customary for military members in civilian clothes to
exchange salutes upon recognition.
7.6.1.6. A Work Detail. In a work detail, individual workers do not salute. The person in charge salutes for
the entire detail.
7.6.2. Indoors.
Except for formal reporting, salutes are not rendered.

Emphasis mine.

I looked but could not find AFI 24-1201 online. Got a link? I googled and used http://www.e-publishing.af.mil

[lordmonar]

Oops....my bad....that should be 34-1201.

[lordmonar]

Also your reference is out of date...the new one is dated 2007.

Here is the quote.

8.6.1.4. Moving Military Vehicles. Exchange of salutes between military pedestrians (including gate sentries) and officers in moving military vehicles is not mandatory. However, when officer passengers are readily identifiable (for example, officers in appropriately marked vehicles); the salute must be rendered.

So we got conflicting regulations....we got a pamphlet that say we don't have to salute....unless the passanger is readily identifiable.....and we got an AFI that says you must return any salute rendered.

Ergo.....if someone salutes you....even if he does not have to....you got to return it.

I can anticipate your next argument..."the AFPAM says passangers".....well all I can say is that the next time an Airman forgets to salute the General's car because the general was the "driver"......that argument will not work very well.  And yes there are generals and colonels out there who DO troll around base "testing" their airman's situational awareness.

[RiverAux]

This seems to be a regulation applying more to the officer in the car than the pedestrian.  To me it says an officer driving a car is not required to return a salute from a pedestrian while an officer that is a passenger in the car is required to do so.  It does contradict the officer's responsibilities under the other regulation that is cited, but to me this particular clause is much more specific than the generic requirement so it holds just a little more weight.   

[Capt Rivera]

This seems to be a regulation applying more to the officer in the car than the pedestrian.  To me it says an officer driving a car is not required to return a salute from a pedestrian while an officer that is a passenger in the car is required to do so.  It does contradict the officer's responsibilities under the other regulation that is cited, but to me this particular clause is much more specific than the generic requirement so it holds just a little more weight.   

That is exactly how I see it.

[lordmonar]

Also to throw into the mix....pamphlets are not regulatory.

[Capt Rivera]

Also to throw into the mix....pamphlets are not regulatory.

Correct. They are advisory in nature.

They are used to explain, clarify and expand on things.  Yes, I know theres an official definition of a pamphlet, but I wont look it up...]

We all know a good regulation will never cover every situation. If it did cover everything it would be to long. If it covered everything without being long, it would either be to light or to restricting.

[jb512]

So what's the verdict?  Are you going to have total and complete disregard for the safety of thousands on the roadway, create havoc and chaos, and bring the world to an end by taking your right hand off the steering wheel to complete the reckless and dangerous act of returning a salute, or just nod?

[Grumpy]

Ye Gad, what ever happened to common sense?

[jb512]

Ye Gad, what ever happened to common sense?

It no longer exists.

[jimmydeanno]

Everyone demands that everything is put into a regulation...

[MIKE]

Everyone demands that everything is put into a regulation...

Training

STANDARDS, CUSTOMS AND COURTESIES

i. "Pamphlets" are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies.

l. "Regulations" announce policies, direct actions and prescribe standards.