We still on this?

Quote
So what's the verdict?  Are you going to have total and complete disregard for the safety of thousands on the roadway, create havoc and chaos, and bring the world to an end by taking your right hand off the steering wheel to complete the reckless and dangerous act of returning a salute, or just nod?

Well, you know how some people get sometimes about the small things...

 Grrrrr   

Somehow I managed to get on base today, (on my motorcycle yet!) which has a sticker that identifies me as an "officer".

Coming through the gate I was a afforded a very smart salute from both guards, which I returned as smartly as possible considering I was in civilian dress and wearing  a flip-shield helmet in the "up" position.

Thankfully, despite earlier warnings, no one was seriously injured in the resulting melee.

As I was leaving this afternoon, someone was walking out of a training center, noticed the bike, glanced to the sticker, and waved his hand (he was also in civilian dress).  I looked him in the eye and nodded sharply, and we both moved on with our lives, thankful, I'm sure, that no one was hurt.

Since this base has a lot of recruits, it is very common to come across large divisions moving between buildings, and the RDC's make a point to salute passing vehicles (as appropriate).  I have never had an issue taking the 1 second to return a salute from the vehicle.

It should also be noted that most bases I have been on have a 15 Mph speed limit.

Further, the vast majority of people I know drive automobiles with one hand most of the time, and thousands of CAP members, police, fire, EMS, HLS, Coast Guard, CERT, etc., find it possible to operate one-handed while talking on a radio with the other, at considerably higher speeds than 15Mph.

Saluting from a vehicle is the same as saluting while walking, do it politely, with respect, the best you can, and as safely as possible, then move on to something important.

QuoteThankfully, despite earlier warnings, no one was seriously injured in the resulting melee.

Oscar Mike Golf!!

Was your bike moving while you saluted??

Quote from: stratoflyer on August 28, 2008, 03:40:27 AM

QuoteThankfully, despite earlier warnings, no one was seriously injured in the resulting melee.

Oscar Mike Golf!!

Was your bike moving while you saluted??

Rolling slightly forward as the gate has a bit of a downslope - since the throttle is on my right hand, you can't go too fast while saluting (from a stop).

With the cruise control on I could be doing highway speeds and salute, though they would likely have an issue with that if I came through the gate at 65 w/o stopping.   

Lima Oscar Lima!

you guys miss my point. It is not required and there are reasons why they don't require it in that instance... Those talking about saluting the gate guards are missing the meat of the conversation as that was never the issue.

All I wanted was for certain individuals to stop saying it was required. They can say highly recommended or whatever else. Just NOT required. There is a difference. We should strive to be accurate with what we say and how we say it....

But you guys obviously can't see past your own experiences and opinion. I never said I don't salute in the case or that others should not. Only that we should not be saying that it is a requirement that they do, because it is not! The reason it is not is because the military sees it as a potential risk with no potential reward.

If you got into a accident because of it and it was required, you could have an argument saying that you would have not gotten into said accident if not for the regulation that made the "unsafe condition". Without regulation, if you get into an accident while doing that, your on your own.

[Students of law (Civil & military) please resist the urge to flex your knowledge.....]
Arguing and winning are two different things and is not pertinent....

It is required.

Quoteall salutes received in uniform shall be returned.

That is from the AFI....which is reglatory.

Quote from: lordmonar on August 30, 2008, 03:54:06 AM
It is required.

Quoteall salutes received in uniform shall be returned.

That is from the AFI....which is reglatory.

I understand regulatory issues.

I also understand safety issues too.

On a motorcycle, if you salute me, you be gettin a nod back.....

WARNING: No implied comment is made by posting this picture. It is merely an observation.

ummmmm......Mr President......Put the dog down........Then salute.......

Dog Down, then Salute......

No, no no, not at once!!

And we are saying that whether it is required or not, we will initiate it or return it.  It is a simple gesture of respect.

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on August 30, 2008, 04:03:26 AM

Quote from: lordmonar on August 30, 2008, 03:54:06 AM
It is required.

Quoteall salutes received in uniform shall be returned.

That is from the AFI....which is reglatory.

I understand regulatory issues.

I also understand safety issues too.

On a motorcycle, if you salute me, you be gettin a nod back.....

Which I said way back when.....absolutely safey and common sense take precident.....but.....RiveraJ.....asked for and was provided the reference that said a return salute was required.

He was suggesting it was wrong for us to tell CAP officers that you should return the salutes while driving a car....because of the danger involved...and that we were wrong to say that a return salute was required.

Here are 4 pages that exemplify why this organization has problems being taken seriously in places where that really matters.

Quote from: aveighter on August 31, 2008, 01:25:07 AM
Here are 4 pages that exemplify why this organization has problems being taken seriously in places where that really matters.

Go look at military.com......if our conduct on a forum has anything to do with the professionalism of the organisation....all four branches of the military are worse than we are.

Quote from: aveighter on August 31, 2008, 01:25:07 AM
Here are 4 pages that exemplify why this organization has problems being taken seriously in places where that really matters.

"I'll buy that for a dollar!"

We get so wrapped up in unimportant minutia we miss the big picture. 

I guess I can thank good mentors and leaders in my parts.

Level I, and my unit CC at the time, provided me the same "non-information" that other members get, but I had excellent examples in both the CAP and compensated services.  I was wrapped up in it for two beats, corrected, and I moved on.

Now I try and pass that on to others I see getting similarly wrapped up.

Another easy fix  for this, if its a cold-sweat-inducing issue, is just wear corporates and civvies, you won't need to worry about returning any salutes.

You know this has really gotten silly about saluting ......driving and all


I remember a 6 paces rule and if one is really concerned I am sure there numerous military websites on the Internet to get this info

Hey CAP, when in doubt, whip it out (that would be salute to u folks)

That's what I learned... are you worried about getting stopped and getting reminded about it??

Quote from: heliodoc on August 31, 2008, 02:02:21 AM
You know this has really gotten silly about saluting ......driving and all


I remember a 6 paces rule and if one is really concerned I am sure there numerous military websites on the Internet to get this info

Hey CAP, when in doubt, whip it out (that would be salute to u folks)

That's what I learned... are you worried about getting stopped and getting reminded about it??

You do know that the 6 paces thing is just a custom, right? It's not written in any regulation, manual or instruction.

^

OK I stand corrected, sir

But my original still stands.... This organization worries about the most trivial things

Especially uniform wear and customs and courtesies

I do understand the need for heraldry, mcustoms and courtesies and all.....

So with all the former RM types, you'd think CAP had this covered already...I was sadly mistaken

US Army Standards - AR 600-25

1-5

d. The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or
to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military
personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.