Tactical Plate Carrier For ES

[Garibaldi]

Just a few quick notes on this topic, and I will shut up.

1. "Dude" is not an affectation that should be used between adults, unless you are in a beer commercial.

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

3. We use the military style gear because it is useful to us, tried and true for many many years.

4. Compliance with CAPM 39-1 is mandatory for all members participating in ES missions. Boonie hats, scarves, whatever they are called, are not to be worn. Period.

[NIN]

Uh, dude, re-read the message I answered.

He did say something against using ammo pouches.

Re-read my second answer to him. I did understand the thread was about plate carriers, and I do know what a plate carrier is.

Uh, dude, I thought you were able to read and understand messages but after your response to mine now I have my doubts...

I just read back and realized I misread your message totally.

It was the "at no time" in large, friendly letters that threw me off track and caused me to lose all my ability to read and comprehend, I bet.

Never mind, I read it again and see that I was way off base. Consider me chastened.

Storm chaser: I used 'dude' first. Sorry, that was all me.

[Eclipse]

There's also no mandate prohibiting me from using a '63 Corvette as my search vehicle; but common sense dictates that I should use something more suited for the environment, like a 4-wheel drive vehicle.

We had a valued member who ran more then one UDF in a Porsche convertible.  Nice car, but not exactly an urban assault vehicle.

Though that probably didn't cost us as many cool points as when we had to take the entire encampment from the base to the airport in
stretch limousines because there were no rental buses in the area.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I took Nin message very personally and realize I have to apologize for my last line.

Where I stated he had to re-read and understand messages. This was out of line.

I value his experience and many, many times his advice is very well on-the-spot, and very clearly expressed.

Take care everyone...

[LATORRECA]

   Good day gentlemen.
   
      Sorry, if I pissed some people off, however the equipment on question can elevate your core temperature 10-12 degrees higher. A cadet can become a heat casualty.
   All I said,  I will not recommended the plate carrier for a cadet to use. No reason to have it.

Have a good day.

And yes sorry for my grammar, English is my second language.

[THRAWN]

I've always been of the "if it works, or you can make it work for you" school of thought on this subject. I had a Cadet who used an Army air crew vest, another who used the simple LBE and another who used some kind of hunting vest from Cabellas and another who had a small ALICE pack clipped to the back of his grenade vest. All of them worked well for the individuals. Each of them took flak because of how they looked, but at the end of the day, it worked for them...

[THRAWN]

Just a few quick notes on this topic, and I will shut up.

1. "Dude" is not an affectation that should be used between adults, unless you are in a beer commercial.

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

3. We use the military style gear because it is useful to us, tried and true for many many years.

4. Compliance with CAPM 39-1 is mandatory for all members participating in ES missions. Boonie hats, scarves, whatever they are called, are not to be worn. Period.

I'll give you the bush hat, but the "handkerchief" could be broadly defined...

[Garibaldi]

Just a few quick notes on this topic, and I will shut up.

1. "Dude" is not an affectation that should be used between adults, unless you are in a beer commercial.

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

3. We use the military style gear because it is useful to us, tried and true for many many years.

4. Compliance with CAPM 39-1 is mandatory for all members participating in ES missions. Boonie hats, scarves, whatever they are called, are not to be worn. Period.

I'll give you the bush hat, but the "handkerchief" could be broadly defined...

I was referring to those tak-ti-kewl bandanna scarf things. It serves no purpose whatsoever.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Bandanas are good for:

1. Improvising bandages.
2. Holding hot handles when cooking or heating MREs.
3. Mopping up sweat.
4. Soaking up more... bodily fluids to post a not disgusting message.
5. Wetting it and putting on top of your head for cooling purposes...

This is all I could think in an instant...

Now we enter into a color war.

1. If you use the ones pictured, you are accused of being tac-ti-kewl.
2. If you use other multicolored ones, you can be accused of using gang colors.

Now tell me, what type of bandanas can one use, which have more use than handkerchiefs, that will pass the CAPTalk self-appointed censors?

[Garibaldi]

Bandanas are good for:

1. Improvising bandages.
2. Holding hot handles when cooking or heating MREs.
3. Mopping up sweat.
4. Soaking up more... bodily fluids to post a not disgusting message.
5. Wetting it and putting on top of your head for cooling purposes...

This is all I could think in an instant...

Now we enter into a color war.

1. If you use the ones pictured, you are accused of being tac-ti-kewl.
2. If you use other multicolored ones, you can be accused of using gang colors.

Now tell me, what type of bandanas can one use, which have more use than handkerchiefs, that will pass the CAPTalk self-appointed censors?

The ones we can use are the triangular bandages that are included in some first aid kits. They are not to be worn around the neck. Realistically, any bandanna has the utility you outlined earlier, they just can't be worn. We used to wear them on our heads like doo-rags, before they became popular amongst the gangsta culture, out in the field WIWAC.

You can also use one in case you don't have any TP. Just sayin'. Just bury it deep.

[Eclipse]

For starters, I don't see the word "bandana" anywhere in 39-1, so if one is necessary, it should be stowed.

Second, in the situation being discussed, those are not "bandanas", they are "Shemaghs" generally worn in a desert
environment, inappropriate for where they were being worn, not approved for wear with a CAP uniform,
and clearly purchased for the COD image they project, not mission performance.

There are plenty of places a head scarf is appropriate for wear, the mid-Atlantic region of the US isn't one of them.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I have been a First Aid and CPR instructor since the 1980's.

So you are saying that bandanas should not be used as triangular bandages if we do not have a triangular bandage by running out of them?

Nice call!

We will now tell the wounded: You should not bleed out. We are waiting for a new shipment of triangular bandages, continue bleeding after we get those... Or wait until the official rescuers arrive to continue bleeding so they can use their approved bandages...

[Storm Chaser]

What was said was that, while bandanas can serve many purposes, they are NOT to be worn with a CAP uniform.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Ok.

Read these:

http://survivalcache.com/30-uses-for-a-bandana/

Granted, in CAP we would only use about 20 of this list...

And http://survivalcache.com/shemaghs-a-survival-must-have/

Who likens the shemagh to a bandana...

And http://beforeitsnews.com/survival/2014/01/33-survival-uses-for-a-shemagh-graphic-2504886.html

I do not own one but would not deny anyone from some of those uses...

[Storm Chaser]

Shemaghs and bandanas can be useful tools. What they're not, however, are uniform accessories.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Now we are getting into a fine line that has been hashed and rehashed ad infinitum here.

Cold weather conditions forces many of us adult leaders to allow non-military style coats with weather conditions. If we adopt the stance that some of you are using to argue we can adopt the same arguments against using those coats.

Sorry should not be having it both ways.

Doesn't 39-1 says something about cold weather? Why would this argument not be relevant to the shemaghs?

[Eclipse]

Ok.

Read these:

Why? No one said they aren't useful.  They simply aren't a uniform item and if you think you need one
should be in your pocket.

[Eclipse]

Now we are getting into a fine line that has been hashed and rehashed ad infinitum here.

Cold weather conditions forces many of us adult leaders to allow non-military style coats with weather conditions.

Not allowed.

Failure to properly plan or equip yourself is not an excuse to violate regulations. 

Ant wing forced to operate in conditions which exceed the approved uniform items should submit
a supplement to NHQ.  By far the majority of wings have no need for this, and in a few cases
it's an ORM failure, not a mission requirement that sees this happen.

Again, in this case, we're talking about members making purchase choices far in advance of
any unforeseen emergency.

Just as we had this issue 10 years ago with Gore-tex before it was approved.  "Better", "warmer", "more capable"
are irrelevant to the "approved for wear discussion" at the member level.

It's one thing to find yourself in an unforeseen circumstance, with no choice in the matter, and a big 'nother
when you choose to buy or use something not on the list, and then wave the "it's all I have flag".

[NIN]

I took Nin message very personally and realize I have to apologize for my last line.

Where I stated he had to re-read and understand messages. This was out of line.

I value his experience and many, many times his advice is very well on-the-spot, and very clearly expressed.

Take care everyone...

Nah, I think we were both talking past each other a little bit for a minute.

I took no offense at your reply, as it forced me to go "Wait, did I read him right?" and then "Whoops, I TOTALLY misread his post!!"

No worries here.

[Garibaldi]

I have been a First Aid and CPR instructor since the 1980's.

So you are saying that bandanas should not be used as triangular bandages if we do not have a triangular bandage by running out of them?

Nice call!

We will now tell the wounded: You should not bleed out. We are waiting for a new shipment of triangular bandages, continue bleeding after we get those... Or wait until the official rescuers arrive to continue bleeding so they can use their approved bandages...

Where on earth was it said we cannot USE these items? I, and a few others, merely said they cannot be WORN as part of the uniform. Stowed in a pocket, quick access, good. Worn as part of the uniform, bad.