What to say on the radio?

[RiverAux]

I think the concern is a valid. However, its right here in CAPR100-3 1-7.a:

a. Codes and Ciphers.
Locally designed codes or adaptation of official codes, however well intentioned, will not deceive a cryptanalyst; only officially authorized codes are to be used. It has become a practice within CAP to assign "code words" to various mission events, in the belief that doing so will conceal these events from an undesired listener. This practice is seldom effective, violates the principles of the Incident Command System and is therefore not authorized.

Possibly one of the dumbest statements in a CAP regulation.  Not because of the prohibition itself -- that is valid even if I disagree with it.  But, the fact that they thought that anyone in CAP believed that there was any chance an actual cryptoanalyst was out there trying to break CAP find codes is just dumb.  Who thought that?  The only point was to give our guys a little headstart when reporting finds back to base so that we might beat the media to a crash site.

Also, what makes me laugh almost as hard is that the folks that say that using such codes won't beat a cryptoanalyst are the same folks who think its important to treat CAP radio frequencies as FOUO.  Just who is kidding themselves now? 

[Hill CAP]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

[SarDragon]

FWIW - encoded =/= encrypted.

[cap235629]

Where is the "Secret Squirrel" when we need him?

RIGHT HERE!

[Thunder]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

Thanks for posting your codes. Time to change them!

[♠SARKID♠]

From what I've been told the codes never really fooled anybody.  One of my older squadron members told me once that while on an a particular actual the code being used for find was "red truck".  When a team made the find, they surreptitiously and cleanly worked it into a sentence over the radio.  The media was on the phone minutes later asking what "red truck" was.
Keep in mind, that's somebody elses anecdote; codewords stopped being used shortly after I joined so I saw no redcaps with them.

The code for find is: Murgatroid; the code for recall is: Dudley; the code for sick is: Barney, as in I'm sick of that freaking purple dinosaur. - Author Retained

[a2capt]

Heavens to Murgatroyd! Exit Grid Left!

[C/Martin]

At the last SAREX I was at, we were told to say "clear the net" before we gave the situation of the person found. When that is said, all communications cease and all family is cleared. However we can not really control what people listening in are hearing. We just were asked not to give any person details.

At the status number mentioned above by another member of the Virginia Wing.

Just another point to add. As far as making official codes, it will never work. According to the manuals CAP members are not allowed to give out the CAP frequencies, but with a simple google search you can find it. If there are code words, they should be made up when the incident happens so it is not like its had some time to find itself on the internet. So code words would probably be at the discretion of the Incident Commander. Also, code words will close gaps. If CAP establishes code words and we use them while commicating with local search and rescue agencies. Escpecially if we use code to speak over the radio. Another probem with code words are what people make up. To be honest, hearing about a red fire truck during a search and rescue operation is a little off-topic. It would need to be words that are easily blended to what is going on.

[lordmonar]

I think the concern is a valid. However, its right here in CAPR100-3 1-7.a:

a. Codes and Ciphers.
Locally designed codes or adaptation of official codes, however well intentioned, will not deceive a cryptanalyst; only officially authorized codes are to be used. It has become a practice within CAP to assign "code words" to various mission events, in the belief that doing so will conceal these events from an undesired listener. This practice is seldom effective, violates the principles of the Incident Command System and is therefore not authorized.

Possibly one of the dumbest statements in a CAP regulation.  Not because of the prohibition itself -- that is valid even if I disagree with it.  But, the fact that they thought that anyone in CAP believed that there was any chance an actual cryptoanalyst was out there trying to break CAP find codes is just dumb.  Who thought that?  The only point was to give our guys a little headstart when reporting finds back to base so that we might beat the media to a crash site.

Also, what makes me laugh almost as hard is that the folks that say that using such codes won't beat a cryptoanalyst are the same folks who think its important to treat CAP radio frequencies as FOUO.  Just who is kidding themselves now?

Well first....there are "undesired listeners" out there.  The press, drug runners, border smugglers and just plain radio enthusiasts. 

CAP radio frequencies are FOUO.....because the are FOUO.....period.  That we treat FOUO as if it were TS/SCI NOFORN/BURNBEFOREREADING is the silly part...but I digress.

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective.  That is....they interfere with the communication process more then they protect the communications process.

Bottom line is that for 99% of the stuff that we do.....there is no need to protect the RF communications.  If the press gets a hold of a find via radio and gets their news team to the location before EMS or the Cops.....well good on them.  If they out the condition of the victims to the family before the MC does.....well bad on them.

We should be sensitive to the dangers of open communication....but let's not get bent out of shape over it.  A 10-4 here and there or Over and Out now and then....is not going to kill anyone.  If you are out on a search and you find the search objective......."Objective found, coordinates as follows" is good enough.  If you need EMS...say so.  If mission base asks for the condition of the objective....tell them.

There are people out there listening.....and we need to be aware of that.....but that is all.

[lordmonar]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

The problem with codes and the reason why FEMA wants us to not use them in multi-agency operations is that no one else knows what they mean.

VA has some nice codes.....so when a DEWG or DCWG people assist you on a search.....they will be out of the comm loop.

[RiverAux]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

Pretty bold statement there.  Upon what is it based? 

[Thunder]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective.

No the reason we don't use codes is because of the "plain-english" requirement of ICS.

[Flying Pig]

Most LE agrees with that as well.  A lot of departments use plain talk.  Just say what you have to say.  Just be smart about what you say.  Back in the day before internet and scanners it may have had a purpose, but not anymore.  When you work with other agencies, even neighboring agencies within the same county, similar codes can have totaly different meetings.

Where I am, 10-36 to one agency means "What time is it?" and to an agency in the same jurisdiction it means "confidential information to follow."   Working SAR, it bogs things down when you have people who are fighting trying to talk in code.  Just say it for crying out loud so we can go!!!!!

[lordmonar]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

Pretty bold statement there.  Upon what is it based?

They are ineffective because 1) they are agency specific. 2) if you try to overcome #1 then they get released to too many people and any joe blow can get to them rendering the effort to keep the communication secure moot. 3) they slow down communications....if you don't know a code then you have to stop and look it up or ask someone.

So....codes don't keep communications secure, slow down the comm process.....i.e. ineffective.

[lordmonar]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

No the reason we don't use codes is because of the "plain-english" requirement of ICS.

The reason why FEMA makes us use plain english is because they are ineffective.

[nesagsar]

If ICS can assign tactical callsigns for radio users on a per incident basis then why not designate tactical prowords on a per incident basis?

[Eclipse]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

[RiverAux]

Sure, any standing codeword will be totally ineffective and will get loose in the public.  It also makes absolutely no difference whether any other agency understands it since we are speaking of CAP members communicating with each other over a CAP radio.  And absolutely no one is talking about some 30 code word system covering every conceivable situation (like the old 10 codes).  However, briefing air and ground crews on a few brand new code words or phrases to use to relay sensitive information (such as the location of a possible find) is well within the grasp of even the dimmest CAP member. 

[lordmonar]

Yes....but why do things one way.....and then have to tell everyone to do it another way "If we work with someone else".

We should train like we fight......if we want to be part of the larger ICS/SAR community....then we should, internally, train as if we are always in a multi-agency operation.  That way we don't screw it up when/if we ever actulally get called out for a large multi-agency operation.

It is that simple.

[RiverAux]

In those situations we are unlikely to face the same situation.