Wearing BOOTS with BLUES

[Major Carrales]

Likely this practice is allowed in CAP to try to save cadets from having to buy both.  That makes the most sense.

It's allowed on Active duty....so it makes sense that CAP would follow suit.

I wouldn't echo that.  Namely because that which makes sense for the USAF doesn't necessarily make sense for CAP.  I'm sure you will agree that there are volumes of things done on active duty that likely will never have a place in CAP.

I think the practicality of conserving cadets money has more place than "we need to do it because "BIG BROTHER BLUE" does.  I offer all honors the the USAF (and always will) but that is a vastly different culture than CAP. 

I should like to know the "spirit" behind the "letter" of that reg.

[SJFedor]

...Also generally speaking boots are a lot harder to shine and do not look just right with blues.....

If you have a set of boots for garrison wear, I've seen many boots done up with Leather Luster. It looks like an actual shine, rather than Corafram. Done properly, it looks really good.

Linky:  http://www.leatherluster.com/

heh...I would advise caution with the leather luster stuff.  It works well enough, but it puts a pretty thick coating on the boot, and looks more like a 70's crumpled pleather than a shined boot unless you do it just right.

As indicated in their faq's, it takes 5-10 minutes (at least) for this stuff to dry.  I know this from experience.

At my first encampment as a CC, a very enthusiastic cadet made a point to show me his shiny Lustered boots, he handed them to me, they looked well enough, and when I gave it back to him I was left with a black outline of his boot on my hand.

I use the stuff on my boots, works very well if you do it correctly, including stripping ALL of the factory polish off before you start to apply it. If you don't, you get the caked-on look. This takes many hours (and many bags of cotton balls and a big bottle of laquer thinner) to do.

Their instructions recommend at least 8 hours drying time. Definitely not something to do at encampment, unless you're touching them up at night, and can let them sit and dry.

[SarDragon]

FYI - it's Corfam. Big "C", one "r". Trademark of duPont, apparently abandoned when they quit making it.

As for that type of shoe, they are very shiny, but have downsides. They make your feet hot and sweaty because they don't breathe, and they damage easily, with little capacity for restoration.

Leather shoes are more comfortable, and endure damage much better. They don't get as shiny, even with a lot of work, and they are now more expensive, but a better, longer lasting shoe, IMHO.

[RiverAux]

Blousing dress pants in boots has to be almost the stupidist looking thing I can imagine doing with a uniform.  Whoever thought that up as a way to distinguish the "cool" units from everybody else must have been high.

[Hawk200]

Blousing dress pants in boots has to be almost the stupidist looking thing I can imagine doing with a uniform.  Whoever thought that up as a way to distinguish the "cool" units from everybody else must have been high.

The Army thought that up, probably about 50 years ago(at a guess). Started out with Airborne units, then was picked up by Rangers, and Special Forces once they formed. It's a long tradition.

Keep in mind that miltary "fashion" is different than civilian. What you consider stupid is a pretty simple distinguishment for the elite units. No fancy uniforms, bells or whistles. Everyone owns a set of boots, and the elite units have their berets. Simple, yet shows their programs aren't.

[flyguy06]

Wondering what the general consensus is on the wear of combat boots/ dress boots are with the blues.

I have heard that this only has to do with "inclement weather"
Being from Alaska I see a lot of this!!!

Has nothing to do with inclement weather. It is permitted per 39-1, most likely because the Air Force permits the same practice.

I wear dress boots with blues all the time. A lot more comfortable, and most of the time noone even notices. The only catch it when they notice that I don't have any laces.

What do you define as 'Dress Boots' ?

Dress Boots are actualy Jump Boots. Its a tradition in the military for all Airborne forces to wear Jump Boots with their respective service uniforms . Rangers do it, SF units do it, Any Airborne unit really to include USAF Pararescue and Combat Controllers. I dont think Seals do it though.

Anyway, Its been a tradition and I suppose CAP picked it up as well, but youreally arent supposed to wear boots with the service uniform unles you also wear a beret.

Anyway, you can actually spit shine jump boots and they get a really glossy shine to them. They are steel toed and have a hard surface

[AlphaSigOU]

Blousing dress pants in boots has to be almost the stupidist looking thing I can imagine doing with a uniform.  Whoever thought that up as a way to distinguish the "cool" units from everybody else must have been high.

The Army thought that up, probably about 50 years ago(at a guess). Started out with Airborne units, then was picked up by Rangers, and Special Forces once they formed. It's a long tradition.

And God forbid then - and now - those unfortunate 'legs' who wore jump boots and bloused trousers who did not earn them by being a 'five-jump chump'. At the very least they'd make the leg go barefoot. 

[Hawk200]

Dress Boots are actualy Jump Boots.

No, they're not. The dress boot as defined by 39-1:

"Black with rounded plain or rounded capped toe; zipper or elastic inserts optional; no
design; sole will not exceed 1/2 inch in thickness and shoe heels will not exceed 1 inch in height (measured from the inside front of the heel). "

An easy rule of thumb is whether or not the heel and sole are more like a low quarter. If they are, they probably qualify.

Jump boots are a unique design, but they're still combat boots. The term "dress boot" isn't used in AR 670-1, and it is the same definition (more or less) as above in AFI 36-2903.

Personally, what I wear as a dress boot is a plain black Roper. Shines well, comfortable, and meets the spec. Like I've said before, a lot of people don't even realize I'm wearing boots until they notice that I don't have laces.

[flyguy06]

Dress Boots are actualy Jump Boots.

No, they're not. The dress boot as defined by 39-1:

"Black with rounded plain or rounded capped toe; zipper or elastic inserts optional; no
design; sole will not exceed 1/2 inch in thickness and shoe heels will not exceed 1 inch in height (measured from the inside front of the heel). "

An easy rule of thumb is whether or not the heel and sole are more like a low quarter. If they are, they probably qualify.

Jump boots are a unique design, but they're still combat boots. The term "dress boot" isn't used in AR 670-1, and it is the same definition (more or less) as above in AFI 36-2903.

Personally, what I wear as a dress boot is a plain black Roper. Shines well, comfortable, and meets the spec. Like I've said before, a lot of people don't even realize I'm wearing boots until they notice that I don't have laces.

Ok,
We're talking about two totallty differant things here. a jump and a conbat boot are two differant kinds of boot

[flyguy06]

Blousing dress pants in boots has to be almost the stupidist looking thing I can imagine doing with a uniform.  Whoever thought that up as a way to distinguish the "cool" units from everybody else must have been high.

The Army thought that up, probably about 50 years ago(at a guess). Started out with Airborne units, then was picked up by Rangers, and Special Forces once they formed. It's a long tradition.

And God forbid then - and now - those unfortunate 'legs' who wore jump boots and bloused trousers who did not earn them by being a 'five-jump chump'. At the very least they'd make the leg go barefoot. 

In case ya'll didn't know, a leg is NAP(non airborne personnel)

[RiverAux]

If the Army came up with it 50 years ago, they probably weren't high, but they were at least drunk. 

[flyguy06]

If the Army came up with it 50 years ago, they probably weren't high, but they were at least drunk. 

[Hawk200]

Ok,
We're talking about two totallty differant things here. a jump and a conbat boot are two differant kinds of boot

They are two different styles of boot. But they are both combat boots.

Here's what CAPM 39-1 says about combat boots:

"Black, with or without safety toe; must have a plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without perforated seam; zipper or elastic inserts are optional; no designs. Highly polished, high gloss, or patent leather."

Emphasis added.

Except for the part on the "Highly polished, high gloss, or patent leather" or the " zipper or elastic inserts" the Army, Air Force, and Civil Air Patrol all define a "combat boot" as the same thing.

[Hawk200]

If the Army came up with it 50 years ago, they probably weren't high, but they were at least drunk. 

That may be a distinct possibility....

[AlaskanCadet]

all these comments are great
the problem with boots and blue is that cadets wear the same boots with blues that they do on a SAREX or ES Exersice. and don't shine them.

[Hawk200]

the problem with boots and blue is that cadets wear the same boots with blues that they do on a SAREX or ES Exersice. and don't shine them.

Now that's a problem. Pretty much anywhere actually. I remember wearing combat boots with blues on a few occasions for wing conferences up there. It was pretty much the standard footwear. Even with some work, you can still polish Danners.

[ddelaney103]

Likely this practice is allowed in CAP to try to save cadets from having to buy both.  That makes the most sense.

A practical reason, but not the primary one.

The Air Force specifically authorizes the wear of boots with blues for all personnel. CAP mirrors the practice.

Where you get into special authorizations is blousing the pant legs. Not an all inclusive list, but Combat Control, Pararescue, Tactical Air Control Party, Air Weather Parachutists, and SERE instructors are authorized to blouse their trousers while wearing boots with blues.

Pretty close - the main one you missed were SkyCops, though there are a couple of others.

Generally, if you're wearing a beret in the AF you can blouse your blues.

[SARMedTech]

I can't think of any good reason to wear boots with blues.  Just wouldn't look right in my book. 

Have you never lived in a climate where the winter weather often includes several inches of snow and or slush through out most of the season? If you have then you know how uncomfortable getting cold, wet snow inside the tops of your shoes is and how uncomfortable it is to sit through a meeting with wet socks. Im not sure if "low quarters" refers to what are commonly called "quarter boots," but yes, I definitely think that  a full "tactical" or ICB would look better as pant legs not bloused tend to get caught up on the tops of quarter boots and affect the overall squared appearance of the uniform. An 8" or 10" boot is definitely more appropriate here, though Ive never been a fan of quarter (6") boots in the first place. I also think that if boots are worn with blues, that ICBs rather than the more high speed tacticals (at the risk of contradicting what I said above) look more appropriate.

Also, as for the poster who said boots are hard to shine...the only boots that are hard to shine are the new "mossys" or other similar suede boots. I wear Bates Enforcer 8" boots which are nylon and leather and have no trouble whatsoever keeping a shine on the leather.

It also helps the appearance of a boot if it is laced and worn properly, keeping in mind that side zips, even with the tab at the top to cover the zipper pull, will eventually shred the inside of your pants legs as well as the cuffs. In my other "unpaid professional" job, I wear khaki 5.11 tacticals unbloused with boots and a polo or t-shirt for meetings and have found that even the hard wearing 5.11s or Proppers tend to exhibit more wear from the zipper rubbing on the inside of the leg.

As for shining, there is always the USCG/AUX regulation that says that a boot worn for indoor purposes will be maintained at a high shine while boots worn out doors will simply be polished. This is truly a pet peeve of mine: "Oh it takes so long to maintain my boots."  You dont have twenty minutes once a week to shine your footwear, be it shoes or boots?

Also, I have a friend who was in the USAF way back when who mentioned something about using an ice cube to harden and thus produce a high shine on the polish. Anyone else ever heard of this. I tried it the way he described it with my boots and it really made no difference. Also, if you use edge dressing, watch out for getting that stuff on your hands. I got it in a cut once and the pain was unbelievable. I now wear nitrile gloves when polishing. That brings to mind a hazing ritual I read about that involved placing edge dressing on certain parts of the anatomy not mentioned in polite company.

[Hawk200]

Pretty close - the main one you missed were SkyCops, though there are a couple of others.

Generally, if you're wearing a beret in the AF you can blouse your blues.

I did mention it wasn't inclusive. The only cops that are actually allowed to do that, according to the AFI, are "base entry controllers and MAJCOM elite guards". Officially, all cops aren't permitted to do it.

Although, in order to blouse, the career field must have a beret. Not necessarily vice versa, but good rule of thumb.

[floridacyclist]

When I was in, we often wore boots with blues if we were going to be on our feet all day and in blues...like working an airshow. it just made sense as the boots were much more comfortable for long periods than low-quarters. being a cop, we didn't have to be told to make sure they were well-shined. I preferred my old Army-isue combat boots for this (with the zig-zag sole pattern) as they looked like shoes unless you looked really closely.