Are CAP Wings are Enlisted Aircrew Wings?

[SAR-EMT1]

I was looking at the ribbon rack page and was struck by something:
All our CAP 'Officers' are wearing enlisted Aircrew Wings.

The current pilot insignia is a set of wings with a circle wherein we have a triangle containing a prop. Observers add an "O"

In the Air Force the Officers wear a Shield in the center of the wings with enlisted crewmembers having a circle.

Any one have a desire to have the triangle and prop inside a shield?

- I know seems minor, but when it hit me it really hit me.

[lordmonar]

I don't know how to respond to this as I am an AD NCO as well as a CAP Officer.

What......"enlisted wings" not good enough for you? 

Sorry if that come out too strong but CAP pilot wings ARE NOT enlisted aviation wings.  They are CAP pilot wings.

One side of me see's what you are saying and agrees with you (try to be more like the airforce)....but the enlisted side of me wants to just jump up and down on your head and scream at you for 20 minutes. 

We have only had that type of wing for 60 years or so....let's leave good enough alone.

[PA Guy]

Any one have a desire to have the triangle and prop inside a shield?

- I know seems minor, but when it hit me it really hit me.

NO I am proud of my CAP wings and have no desire to imitate the AF in wing design.

[DNall]

Kind of like this:


This issue has been covered before. Advise you use the search function for indepth past discussion.

[SAR-EMT1]

DNALL:
Seen those before, in fact I think I posted in that thread, but the search came up dry.

Lordmonar: I did not mean to offend you or any NCO.

Question: How does one get CAP Astronaut Status? AFSCFC attendance? Working as a tour guide Down in Florida? 

[BillB]

The CAP requirements for Astronaut wings are the same as USAF. You have to be on a space flight. As explained to me by a Navy Astronaut, you have to be in zero gravity for over ten minutes, meaning a flight on the space shuttle. If memory serves, CAP has only awarded 1  Astronaut rating. And I have no idea if wings were presented.

[AlphaSigOU]

The CAP requirements for Astronaut wings are the same as USAF. You have to be on a space flight. As explained to me by a Navy Astronaut, you have to be in zero gravity for over ten minutes, meaning a flight on the space shuttle. If memory serves, CAP has only awarded 1  Astronaut rating. And I have no idea if wings were presented.

AF rules for getting the 'shooting star' (astronaut) designator on wings is to fly at least once to an altitude of 50 miles above the earth, which is why some of the X-15 pilots earned astronaut wings. While it's common to see the shooting star on pilot wings, the designator has been awarded to rated navigators and other aircrew, though they may not display them on their uniform.

The NASA astronaut shooting star lapel pin (in silver) is awarded once one completes astronaut training; once one completes a space flight, the silver pin becomes a gold one. (Only one gold astronaut pin was jeweled with a single diamond on the star; this was awarded to the late Deke Slayton by the Apollo 1 widows - it was intended to be flown on the Apollo 1 mission and presented by the astronauts after the flight.)

At one time, astronauts used to also get promoted after a space flight, but nowadays you have to fly outside earth orbit (that is, to the moon) to get promoted.

[mdickinson]

I could be wrong, but I think CAP wings have remained largely unchanged since the organization was founded. That is the reason that I would argue against changing our wings. They have been fine thus far.

A second reason is: in the RealMilitary they have NCO pilots and Officer pilots, so they have wings that differentiate between them.  In CAP, with very few exceptions, we don't have NCO pilots; so we really don't need two different styles of wings to differentiate officers from NCOs.

[RiverAux]

Even if they are, I don't think it is a big enough deal to worry about. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I could be wrong, but I think CAP wings have remained largely unchanged since the organization was founded. That is the reason that I would argue against changing our wings. They have been fine thus far.

A second reason is: in the RealMilitary they have NCO pilots and Officer pilots, so they have wings that differentiate between them.  In CAP, with very few exceptions, we don't have NCO pilots; so we really don't need two different styles of wings to differentiate officers from NCOs.

There have been several changes to CAP wings.

In WWII we had the "Spread Eagle" wings, with observers having a single wing.  Nobody liked them because they looked a LOT like Hermann Goring's design for the badge worn by Nazi Party members serving with the Luftwaffe.

After the war, we had the "Droop Wings."  They looked a little like RAF wings, but at least the observers got a 2-wing symmetrical badge.

In the early 1980's we went to the current wing design.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Of course, since my motocycle wreck made it painful to exercise, I'm starting to look more like Hermann Goring!

[ColonelJack]

^^ Hey, that's my cousin you're talking about!!!  (Seventh cousin twice removed, but still ... )

We never invite cousin Hermann to anything.  He's not a nice man.

Jack

[DNall]

The thread was about scanner wings. The addition of the astronaut wings there is part of a public relations effort. The idea was to make all NASA astronauts AE members of CAP, incl award of these wings. That would hopefully spur greater involvement by them in our current AE programs, and possibly pull a couple over after they are done with NASA.

Anyway, the CAP wings look like they do so they won't be confused with the AF ones. The wings above use the AF-style outter wings with a full-color inner using a dif shield shape. This allows greater alignment with them while still maintaining a highly distinctive yet attractive design highlighting our own traditions & symbols.

[Pylon]

I like my wings the way they are.   

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

A second reason is: in the RealMilitary they have NCO pilots and Officer pilots, so they have wings that differentiate between them.  In CAP, with very few exceptions, we don't have NCO pilots; so we really don't need two different styles of wings to differentiate officers from NCOs.

Does the Air Force have any NCO pilots?  I did'nt think they did.

[LtCol White]

I don't know how to respond to this as I am an AD NCO as well as a CAP Officer.

What......"enlisted wings" not good enough for you? 

Sorry if that come out too strong but CAP pilot wings ARE NOT enlisted aviation wings.  They are CAP pilot wings.

One side of me see's what you are saying and agrees with you (try to be more like the airforce)....but the enlisted side of me wants to just jump up and down on your head and scream at you for 20 minutes. 

We have only had that type of wing for 60 years or so....let's leave good enough alone.

Agreed that they should stay the same. NHQ is planning to expand the NCO  program. Given this, you would have to have enlisted pilot's wings for the SNCO's if one wanted to be a mission pilot. Having our wings as they are makes them distinct to CAP. They look good and I see no problem with the shape.

[Pylon]

A second reason is: in the RealMilitary they have NCO pilots and Officer pilots, so they have wings that differentiate between them.  In CAP, with very few exceptions, we don't have NCO pilots; so we really don't need two different styles of wings to differentiate officers from NCOs.

Does the Air Force have any NCO pilots?  I did'nt think they did.

They have enlisted aircrew, for sure.

[Short Field]

the enlisted side of me wants to just jump up and down on your head and scream at you for 20 minutes.

I'll hold him for you if you will hold him for me......

[BlueLakes1]

I could be wrong, but I think CAP wings have remained largely unchanged since the organization was founded. That is the reason that I would argue against changing our wings. They have been fine thus far.

A second reason is: in the RealMilitary they have NCO pilots and Officer pilots, so they have wings that differentiate between them.  In CAP, with very few exceptions, we don't have NCO pilots; so we really don't need two different styles of wings to differentiate officers from NCOs.

Quite the contrary, I'm not familiar of any branch with enlisted pilots who are currently serving. The last enlisted pilot in the USAF retired in 1957 (interestingly, he rose to the grade of Lt. Colonel during WWII, then reverted back to his pre-war grade of Master Sergeant at the end of the war). Incidentally, rated enlisted pilots wore the same pilot wings as their officer counterparts, not different ones.

(For more info, try http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=1427)

While we don't have many exceptions, the possibility of having an NCO pilot in CAP is much greater than of there being one on active duty. While there aren't many NCOs in CAP to begin with, we would allow one to be a CAP pilot; the military services require either a commission or a warrant.

Our pilot wings have been changed a bit as well. The "drooped wing" design was used until 1976-1977; we didn't have upswept wings, similar to the USAF wings, until then. As such, there's not a huge historical reason to not change. I'd be in favor of a change not because I was to be more like the Air Force, but because I'd like to be able to tell at a glance whether or not someone is a pilot or observer without having to get into their personal space to find the "O".

[scooter]

the enlisted side of me wants to just jump up and down on your head and scream at you for 20 minutes.

I'll hold him for you if you will hold him for me......

If you need additional help, let me know.

Also, there are not enlisted AF rated pilots that I ever heard of in a 22 year AF flying career. There were however, tons of professional enlisted aircrew members.