EMT/Paramedic Insignia

[capchiro]

I propose that we buy a bunch of used MASH tents and set up field hospitals for our use during missions.  I am proposing that we just do medical treatment on our own members, the ones that are too old, too out of shape, and too far gone to know their own limits...Oh and also for the cadets that trip over their berets or parachute harnesses and fall on their Bowie or KaBar knives.. 

[John Bryan]

WOW....this got off topic fast.

But what the heck.....question for the poster who said FR is not part of EMS. What is it part of??? In my state (Indiana) the state EMS commission has control of FR, certified ambulance driver (very few of these around any more) EMT-B, EMT-I, EMT-A, and EMT-P.

For the record I think they should not wear the EMT badge....but maybe we need something for them....maybe a gold EMT badge..the current one for EMT's is silver.

Also we should bring back the state patches on the BDUs. On a crash scene or disaster local police, fire , EMA, and EMS will know what those mean. Our little EMT badge means a lot to us but thats about it.

[Stonewall]

But what the heck.....question for the poster who said FR is not part of EMS. What is it part of???

I agree.  Back in the day, before all the firefighters were EMTs they were FRs, at least in my county and the neighboring one.  And mine is the 3rd largest in the country.  Yes, they were and probably still are a part of the EMS system.  Maybe not in tree-huggin' Cali, but they are here in Fun-in-the-sun-Florida. 

Also we should bring back the state patches on the BDUs. On a crash scene or disaster local police, fire , EMA, and EMS will know what those mean. Our little EMT badge means a lot to us but thats about it.

I will disagree with this statement, with all due respect, of course 

Although we can and are state and local assets, we're the Air Force Auxiliary.  You wouldn't find an AF Med Tech wearing the local or state EMS patch, and many military types do get their training locally.  In the Army, we did the NREMT course at Walter Reed, but ER time was at Baltimore Shock Trauma and Extrication was done at a local FD.  My buddy, an AF PJ, does all of h is Paramedic and specialized training outside of the military...no state or local EMS affiliation there.

Sorry, but I'd vote against having non-CAP EMS insignia (patches) on our BDUs.  I'm not affiliated with any EMS agencies, but I'm still an EMT and have been since '93.  I've stopped at tons of accidents, house fires, beach rescues, etc., and have never had to show any insignia or credentials.  I've simply said to the patient.  "my name is Kirt Bowden and I'll be your EMT today", or the few times, about three or four in all, that I've been in a CAP or Military uniform, I've simply advised the police or patient the same thing.  If they ask for credentials, I'd gladly show them my card. 

Actually, thinking now, back in 1990, as a cadet and state first responder (remember, I had the big white/blue FR patch on my BDUs), I stopped at a head-on where Life Flight had to come.  I was first medical person on scene.  Being a 17 year old in BDUs, even with the big EMS patch, the officer still said to me, and I remember this vividly, "don't be doing anything you aren't trained to do".  I responded with a "Roger that, sir". 

These days, however, I have a "POLICE" reflective vest in my car and throw that on if I get out to help.  Even did that last summer when I witnessed a motorcycle wreck and I was in my AF BDUs.  After this discussion though, I think I'll throw my "EMERGENCY SERVICES" reflective vest in my Exploder Explorer so I'm more neutral with the whole ID thing.  See, these discussions are good.

Here is what we all got at my last squadron, except in orange and the title was "EMERGENCY SERVICES".

[Duke Dillio]

Just a quick response to the question they asked of me.  In tree-huggin Cali, FR is a qualification but not a license to practice medicine.  To be more precise, the only EMS personnel that are "licensed" to do treatment are the Paramedics.  EMT's in Cali are extremely limited in the amount of care that they can provide.  The FR's are about the same way but worse.  It is basically like I said before, an "advanced first aid" course.  I guess each state treats them differently.  While some of the cops around here are FR qualed, they do not routinely provide medical treatment.  In Colorado, the standard for firefighters was EMT-Basic and I think that the same applies here in Cali, although I admit that I haven't really looked into it.  I don't want to sound like I am saying that FR's are useless because that's not what I believe.  I am simply saying that they are treated differently here in Cali.

[Flying Pig]

I am an EMT-B in Ca.  Firefighters in Ca dont need to be EMT's.  Compared to an EMT, a first responder is somewhat of a glorified First Aid course.  You cant get a job employed soley as a first responder.  You can as an EMT.  We really don't need a badge for every level of every skill set under the sun.  What happened to the days of just getting the training to get the training?

If you wanted the badge, you went to the local college and took the EMT course.  Now.....everyone else wants a badge.  Everyone wants a patch.   If your trained, then show up and help.  As a 10 year law enforcement officer Ive never asked to see a card, or paid much attention to a patch some Good Samaritan had on his shirt.  When you get into the EMS community, at least where Im at, people aren't covered in patches and badges.  CAP members start showing up with CPR/First Aid patches we are going to look silly.   Because you are working in a world where your big fancy patch is, often times, lower than the minimum required for the other people, Fire/EMS, to even start.  Lets not advertise that we possess the minimum qualifications and lets reserve the badges for the people who are on an equal playing field with the rest of the EMS community, ie. EMT/Paramedic badge, Nurse, etc.

[Stonewall]

I We really don't need a badge for every level of every skill set under the sun. 

I agree to an extent, but like in the military, CAP has a 3-tier system for badges.  I agree, FR is a 40 hour version of the 20 hour advanced first aid course, and we do already have 3 levels for the EMT badge.  I'm not lobbying for change or sending letters to NHQ, it's merely my humble opinion and if I were king when EMT badges came out, I'd consider adding FR to the mix.  Until that day comes, I'm content with the EMT badge system.

BTW, not that it matters, but I don't even wear my EMT badge.

[Flying Pig]

What are the requirement for the 3?  When I got my EMT badge, there was just the basic one.

[Stonewall]

EMT-P


EMT-I


EMT-B

[Flying Pig]

I propose this for the CPR badge......

[isuhawkeye]

the state of Iowa recognises the I-1985 curriculum as an intermediate, the I-199 curriculum as a Paramedic, the Paramedic curriculum is a Paramedic Specialist in the state of Iowa, and to be the king of the ambulance we also have a Critical Care Paramedic level. 

How would this be applied to our luttle system of glitter

recognising that none of them will be alloud to function as an EMS provider

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Forgive my potential obtuseness, but is the three-tier badge system in the regs?

[Eclipse]

Forgive my potential obtuseness, but is the three-tier badge system in the regs?

Yes.

[SARMedTech]

Just a quick response to the question they asked of me.  In tree-huggin Cali, FR is a qualification but not a license to practice medicine.  To be more precise, the only EMS personnel that are "licensed" to do treatment are the Paramedics.  EMT's in Cali are extremely limited in the amount of care that they can provide.  The FR's are about the same way but worse.  It is basically like I said before, an "advanced first aid" course.  I guess each state treats them differently.  While some of the cops around here are FR qualed, they do not routinely provide medical treatment.  In Colorado, the standard for firefighters was EMT-Basic and I think that the same applies here in Cali, although I admit that I haven't really looked into it.  I don't want to sound like I am saying that FR's are useless because that's not what I believe.  I am simply saying that they are treated differently here in Cali.

Not quite right, sargrunt. EMT-Bs are quite licensed to practice pre-hospital emergency medicine, just like paramedics as we both operate on the license of the state or regional medical director. At least, thats what the IL DOPH EMT license in my wallet says. Here in IL, while on duty, EMTs give about a half dozen meds, assess patients, treat shock and trauma, perform airway treatments (IE albuterol nebulizer) and even intubate patients with combitubes. Im also "licensed" to deliver babies in the field, stabilize fractures, eviscerations, lacerations and abdominal wounds. The meds I can give are aspirin for possible MI, nitro for chest pain, O2 (which is considered a drug so any CAP member carrying a cylinder since CAP has not medical direction is doing so illegally) glucose, glucagon, epinephrine and albuterol. EMT-Is can give about 3 times that many drugs including morphine and can also needle decompress a pneumothorax and perform and emergency surgical field airway (cricho-thyroid stab/tracheostomy).

[SARMedTech]

the state of Iowa recognises the I-1985 curriculum as an intermediate, the I-199 curriculum as a Paramedic, the Paramedic curriculum is a Paramedic Specialist in the state of Iowa, and to be the king of the ambulance we also have a Critical Care Paramedic level. 

How would this be applied to our luttle system of glitter

recognising that none of them will be alloud to function as an EMS provider

The NREMT does not recognize I-99 as paramedic level, and I have never heard that Iowa does. THE DOT/NHTSA recognizes persons trained and licensed under I-85 or I-99 as Intermediates and to my knowledge no state is allowed to supercede those requirements since DOT/NHTSA is the primary "governing" body for EMS in the United States.

[CadetProgramGuy]

[topic drift]

Are you allowed to wear both ground team and EMT badges on the same line?

IOW, I am a pilot, wearing my pilot wings, can I also wear EMT and GBD on the second line?  And no I haven't looked up the regs yet.....

[/topic drift]

[CadetProgramGuy]

Never mind, found answers in 39-1.  A Maximum of 4 badges per uniform, 2 on the left side.  Looks like a choice will have to be made.......

Pilot wings and either GTL or EMT (when I earn it)

[SARMedTech]

As I am sure folks remember, I used to be the biggest advocate for EMTs allowed to practice medicine with CAP in the field and the insignia is still on my uniform. Since joining a field medical team, I dont really feel that way anymore and its primarily just because there is no system in place within CAP to support EMTs of any level working in the field. Just like when CAP goes on a SAR and has commo folks, ground pounders, etc, when the Im on goes out we generally send a team of between 30 and 45 people and we do what capchiro suggested with his tongue in his cheek: we set up a field hospital. We did it during Katrina, during a huge ice storm that shut down a hospital in South Central IL, we "pre-deploy" as medical standby for events where huge numbers of people are present or where dignitaries will be attending.

The difference is this: we travel with semi-trucks full of medical equipment. Literally millions of dollars worth of gear. We have doctors, nurses, EMTs, Paramedics, dentists, respiratory therapists and yes even morgue personnel from one of the country's DMORT teams. Our process is: triage, treat and if necessary EVAC. Repeat.

The reason I am saying this is because it seems that the conversation started with a talk about MFRs (medical first responders) in the field. I say great because what they provide is moderate to advanced first aide and I think all members, if they are going to be in the field should have to have this 40-60 hours class. But when we start to talk about EMTs and Paramedics in the field, what are you going to do? The same things as your cadet MFR. As I say, I used to be the biggest, most gung-ho advocate of having EMT/medical personnel in the field, but I now (I have a thick skull) see that all they are going to be able to do is pull up a log, sit down and wait for helo or ground evac along with everyone else. Honestly, if there were some kind of catastrophe, say an airliner crashing, and I got there to see CAP members moving patients around, etc in a field, my face would probably peel off. Say you find a survivor still in the plane. He is strapped into his seat and hanging at a funny angle. What are you going to do? Cut him down?  Better not. Because unless you have away to maintain c-spine and are carrying a long board, you should not touch that person. If you recognize that you have a person in shock, what will you do..I say IF you recognize it. What we are talking about that CAP is going to need is a disaster medical team of some kind and technical (confined space, high angle, etc) rescue, at the minimum.

What this all gets to is really the patch on a working uniform or the silver and blue enamel one on a service uniform. Its nice recognition from CAP, but its basically a merit badge. If you have a critical care paramedic on your team, he still cant do anything. That being said, focus on first aide and advanced first aide. A past president of the AMA said that often the fate of a patient is dependent on the care given to them by the person who applies the first field dressing. So if you are a medically inclined soul, carry Israeli field pressure dressings, space blankets, maybe a few burn sheets, a SAM splint and some gloves and some various sizes of bandages and tape and if youre feeling high speed, a BP cuff. This is about all you can do in the field. Start doing more than that, and eventually you are going to have a problem. And if youre really inclined to practice austere field medicine, join your state's DMAT team where you can actually use what you learned.  One thing that would be helpful is if CAP EMTs, know START or MASS triage. That way when the medical help starts to roll in, you can say we have 44 major, 68 minor and 12 deceased.

Now if I can just get HMRS to stop calling its graduates medics...

PS- alot of this comes from the documentary I recently saw on PJs. These men and women train for months in austere field medicine and function at the level of paramedic. There is a reason for that

[JCW0312]

Now if I can just get HMRS to stop calling its graduates medics...

Amen.

[isuhawkeye]

The NREMT does not recognize I-99 as paramedic level, and I have never heard that Iowa does. THE DOT/NHTSA recognizes persons trained and licensed under I-85 or I-99 as Intermediates and to my knowledge no state is allowed to supercede those requirements since DOT/NHTSA is the primary "governing" body for EMS in the United States.

Sorry dude,

A "Paramedic" in Iowa takes the National Registry's I-99 test.  A "Paramedic Specialist" takes the National Registry Paramedic exam.  Thats just the way it is.

[JCW0312]

The NREMT does not recognize I-99 as paramedic level, and I have never heard that Iowa does. THE DOT/NHTSA recognizes persons trained and licensed under I-85 or I-99 as Intermediates and to my knowledge no state is allowed to supercede those requirements since DOT/NHTSA is the primary "governing" body for EMS in the United States.

Sorry dude,

A "Paramedic" in Iowa takes the National Registry's I-99 test.  A "Paramedic Specialist" takes the National Registry Paramedic exam.  Thats just the way it is.

That's crazy! It's like calling a Nurse Practitioner a Doctor and calling a Doctor a Doctor Specialist!