EMT/Paramedic Insignia

[DC]

Does anyone know the requirements for being able to wear the EMT/Paramedic badge. Or, more specifically, would a NREMT Registered First Responder be able to wear it. The title accompanying the cert is NREMT-FR, and FR is a recognized level of EMS provider... 39-1 doesn't really define who can wear it, neither does 160-1...

Semper Vi,

[isuhawkeye]

generally speaking there is not insignia for FR. 

Im sure people will site regs shortly

[MIKE]

First Responder don't count.

[JCW0312]

EMT's/paramedics are referrred to as "health technicians" in 160-1, but First Responders are not. And since the certification for a first responder is not considered a level of EMT licensure, I would have to assume that first responder is not qualified for the EMT/Paramedic badge.

[BlueLakes1]

EMT's/paramedics are referrred to as "health technicians" in 160-1, but First Responders are not. And since the certification for a first responder is not considered a level of EMT licensure, I would have to assume that first responder is not qualified for the EMT/Paramedic badge.

Depends on your state. Kentucky actually uses the term "EMT-First Responder".

That being said, I'm on board, you should be an EMT-Basic to wear the EMT badge.

[SARMedTech]

Does anyone know the requirements for being able to wear the EMT/Paramedic badge. Or, more specifically, would a NREMT Registered First Responder be able to wear it. The title accompanying the cert is NREMT-FR, and FR is a recognized level of EMS provider... 39-1 doesn't really define who can wear it, neither does 160-1...

Semper Vi,

Also, the NREMT does not offer certifications, it offers Registry. There is a difference. Registry in and of itself does not allow you to practice as any level EMT unless your state uses only the NREMT exam as its qualifier or allows either the state test or the NREMT exam.

[stillamarine]

Does anyone know the requirements for being able to wear the EMT/Paramedic badge. Or, more specifically, would a NREMT Registered First Responder be able to wear it. The title accompanying the cert is NREMT-FR, and FR is a recognized level of EMS provider... 39-1 doesn't really define who can wear it, neither does 160-1...

Semper Vi,

Also, the NREMT does not offer certifications, it offers Registry. There is a difference. Registry in and of itself does not allow you to practice as any level EMT unless your state uses only the NREMT exam as its qualifier or allows either the state test or the NREMT exam.

Such as FL, which doesn't recognize the National Registry. When I moved down here I had to challenge Florida's registry.

[DC]

Does anyone know the requirements for being able to wear the EMT/Paramedic badge. Or, more specifically, would a NREMT Registered First Responder be able to wear it. The title accompanying the cert is NREMT-FR, and FR is a recognized level of EMS provider... 39-1 doesn't really define who can wear it, neither does 160-1...

Semper Vi,

Also, the NREMT does not offer certifications, it offers Registry. There is a difference. Registry in and of itself does not allow you to practice as any level EMT unless your state uses only the NREMT exam as its qualifier or allows either the state test or the NREMT exam.

I understand that, poor choice of words on my part..

Thank you, everyone, for the clarification.

[Duke Dillio]

There used to be a note about this is CAPM 39-1 but I can't seem to find anything regarding the requirements for any of the EMT badges.  I also didn't know that they had 3 levels of them now.  Anyway, the only thing I could find was on knowledgebase:

"Upon satisfactory completion of a US DOT EMT/Paramedic Training Course or approved equivalent, the "Star of Life" patch meeting the requirements in CAPM 39-1 (embroidered in white cotton thread) may be worn on the CAP uniform. The patch may be awarded or purchased from a number of sources. See some examples and sources below."

First Responder is, I believe, classified as an Advanced First Aid course and I don't believe that it qualifies for wear of the EMT badge.

[Stonewall]

People will totally disagree with me and I appreciate their argument, but back in the day when I wrote up a proposal for a 3-tier EMT badge for CAP, my suggestion was that a National Registry First Responder, State Recognized (DOT), or Wilderness FR would get the Basic badge, EMT-B and I would get Senior, and EMT-P (Paramedic) would get the Master. 

I suggested this as a means to motivate folks to get more_than_basic_first_aid training.  And while EMT-B isn't crazy-insane to accomplish, it may be too much to ask of a high school student or busy-body senior member.  But a 40 hour FR course would be enough to learn those advanced skills and be rewarded with something to show your accomplishments.

YOMV

PS:  My proposal went to wing and maybe region, and I got an email back basically saying "this is stupid, there is already an EMT badge, no need for 3 of them..."

[Duke Dillio]

I haven't found anything in the regs however I did find three levels of the EMT badge on Vanguard.  It was my understanding that they were for EMT-B, EMT-I, and EMT-P.  I know that most states don't recognize the EMT-I but there are still a few that do.  I agree with you on the three levels though.  A paramedic should be able to wear something more than an EMT-B considering the extra amount of training and skills they need to perform.

[isuhawkeye]

Not to throw mud on this fire

1.  To clarify the national registry recognizes two different levels of Intermediate. 

2.  The WFR program's and wilderness first aid courses are a great resource, and (especially the wilderness first aid) they could be molded to fit within CAP's existing guidelines referencing care. 

[Stonewall]

I hate to say this because I know I'm right, but if the basic "EMT" badge were authorized for First Responders, I bet the number of FR's in CAP would more than triple....just to get a badge.

As a cadet in Florida, I did the 40 hour FR course put on by the St. Johns County VFD.  On my CAP fatigues, then BDUs, I wore the big blue/white "MEDICAL RESPONSE TECHNCIAN" / "FIRST RESPONDER" with blue star of life patch on the pocket.  While big and gawdy, it did match the CAP color theme of blue/white.  I later went on to become EMT and was pleasently surprised in 1993 when they came out with the EMT badge.

[Duke Dillio]

^I totally agree with you in that FR's would pop out of the wood work just to get the badge.  Wouldn't this take away from people like you and me who have gone through the EMT-Basic course?  We'd get a little star on top of our badge but I'm not sure how a GBD/EMT-P would look with two master blaster badges on their uniform.  Just a thought though.

[Stonewall]

^Well, as much as I truly disagree with throwing a carrot out there so people advance, it wouldn't be too much give for quite a bit of take.  We could take account of the different levels of medical training folks have across the nation in CAP and boast about it in the Annual Report to Congress.

In CAP, with 55,000 members, 8 thousand are First Responders; 4 thousand are EMTs, and 1 thousand are Paramedics.... or something more realistic. 

[Duke Dillio]

^Just a thought but why not mandate FR for say GTM-2 or GTM-1.  In CAWG, they want the GTL's to have "advanced first aid training."  I wouldn't mind seeing FR as a requirement for these levels.  If you really think about it, most of the first aid training that is provided is not all that difficult to comprehend.  I'm sure that we could find FR instructors who would teach higher levels of First Aid to our members..... for a fee of course   

[Stonewall]

Remember though, CAP is not an EMS organization, nor do we advertise [officially] as such.  So any training above basic or advanced first aid is just incentive training and skills as far as CAP is concerned.  In my mind, although not an EMS org, it only makes us look better and gives the disaster response community more resources when disasters or emergencies happen and CAP is there to assist.

[Duke Dillio]

^My response is that while CAP is not an EMS organization, we sometimes find ourselves in such a position that we need to apply certain skills in order to save a life.  The more skillful we are, the better our chances of helping someone in need.  Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating that we should all become paramedics or provide care that is not needed (i.e. the emergency trach with a ball point pen.)  In my mind, a FR is not an EMS provider.

We should be able to sustain a patient until the pros get there and take over.  I would personally prefer to have a ground team with 3 FR's and an EMT on it than 4 people who have the required first aid only find a crash site with survivors.  More often than not, our skills are not required.  We do put ourselves into HUGE liability if we are going beyond our scope, which if I am not mistaken has occurred on occasion.  I have seen ground teams carrying all sorts of crud that they will never use (i.e. oxygen cylinders, BVM's, intubation kits, etc.)  I just don't see any reason why our people should not be certified in "advanced first aid," which is what I hear is the level of a FR.

From the political aspect, of course we would look good if all of our members are FR qualed.  I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be a whole lot of liability considered if another major disaster were to occur and we had CAP teams on site providing assistance to the EMS providers.  Any training that makes our organization stronger and more able to assist the community should be highly recommended, in this case FR.

One point that I would like to bring up though is that we currently don't have a real good way of documenting care that we provide.  I think that this presents us with a liability issue.  I like the idea of having a PCR of some sort included in the ground team paperwork bundle.  Yeah, we are killing more trees but I think that this would help us should we find ourselves in a legal issue.  If not a PCR, then some sort of written statement explaining the care that we provided and why.  I know that I have been called to court several times on patients that I cared for who were suing.  These court cases came down 6-12 months after the incident.  As a rule, I would always go back and look at the archived PCR to find out what happened and why I did what I did.  Remember though that the lawyers will also have your PCR and they will call you on it.

[MIKE]

I should just lock this one now.

[isuhawkeye]

^^^ might not be a bad idea. 

Weve hashed this out time, and time again