Another Ribbon Question

[JCW0312]

I tried searching for a post that covered this, but was unsuccessful.

If a new senior member was a cadet years ago and didn't make a milestone award, but did make C/A1C (Arnold), can that SM wear the Arnold ribbon without some sort of documentation?

The break in membership has been almost a decade and all inactive cadet records from back then have been destroyed. No milestone award was reached, so there's no record (other than a few seniors that remember the previous cadet making it to C/A1C).

[MIKE]

If there is no documentation...

[Stonewall]

Honestly, being that it's not a major deal and no one would lose sleep over it, if dude could show me a pic of him in his cadet uniform with said rank, I'd make a photo copy of it and put it in his file with a 2a or something. 

We had a guy do that.  Same achievement, Arnold.  Always thought it was cool.  Last I knew he was a major.

[mikeylikey]

^ Agreed!  Or get a simple letter from the other guys saying "yeah this officer got that as a Cadet"

Easy as pie (strawberry)

[ZigZag911]

Technically it needs documentation...practically speaking, the odds of someone challenging his right to wear an Arnold are virtually non-existent!

If he wants to do it, I'd say let him go for it....do warn him, though, that former cadets/current seniors tend to snicker discreetly at anyone wearing anything less than a Mitchell or higher milestone award.

[arajca]

Technically it needs documentation...practically speaking, the odds of someone challenging his right to wear an Arnold are virtually non-existent!

If he wants to do it, I'd say let him go for it....do warn him, though, that former cadets/current seniors tend to snicker discreetly at anyone wearing anything less than a Mitchell or higher milestone award.

Or not so discreetly...

[lordmonar]

If you were going to lie about earning an Achievement Ribbon....why stop at the Arnold?

If a SM told me he earned something way back when....I don't double check.

[mikeylikey]

Speaking of checking.....I once had a guy wear an embroidered Military Wings on his CAP uniform.  I asked him for documentation and his 214 to put in his file and he said that the 214 could not be handed over as I was not "privy" to that type of information and he did not have too.  (I did not mention I know how the military works, because I just wanted to get away from the guy)  Well.....he went to court and served 1 month in prison.  (I did not turn him in, he dressed up like an AF Major and would regularly go on Base to shop and whatnot).  He got out, did it again recently and was just charged under that "stolen honor" law (or whatever it is called). 

Not that what I typed has anything to do with Cadet Ribbons for Senior Members.  Sorry.

[AC]

Bravo mikey! There are people like that poser, and they deserve what they get!

AC

[mikeylikey]

^ Thanks......there are more and more people being charged under that new law everyday.  There are websites out there too that track these people, and you can give "tips" on people that need investigated. 

I think the going rate is 6 months in prison and sometype of monetary punishment. 

There was a guy in 1999 that impersonated an AF Major (Jeff Klotz) who was arrested at the PA Wing Encampment by the FBI.  He served 6 months then, and about 2 years ago got busted at Andrews AFB for impersonating a Lt Col.  I think he is still in Federal Prison. 

[Dad2-4]

I wear my Curry because that's what I acheived in CAP way back in 8th grade and I've never had anyone snicker.
I know a guy that was in my squadron for a while that claimed all kinds of prior military stuff. Disappeared when our Wing IG started investigating disprepancies.

[Pylon]

"Documentation" to support the Arnold could be a typed statement from somebody you were a cadet with, saying that they recall you earning the Arnold/being an C/A1C. 

If it's acceptable to the commander, "documentation" might also just be a sworn/notarized statement from you stating that in 19XX you earned the Arnold Achievement as a CAP cadet.

Place that with a CAPF 2A in the file and never look back. 

[MIKE]

My take:  Bearing in mind that this is taken from CAPR 39-2 dealing with cadets rejoining.

4-2. a. 1) Cadets rejoining after a break in service will be credited with previous accomplishments as evidenced in their personnel files.

Therefore if the personnel file no longer exists, you can not credit an individual with previous accomplishments because there is no CAPF 66 or equivalent to serve as evidence of such.

[Flying Pig]

If it were me, Id have the member type up something saying he earned the ribbon.  Legal...no but....

Now if the guy came in wearing a stack with some serious ribbons, Id need documentation.  Yeah, I know, whats considered serious?  But given this scenario, I wouldnt have an issue with the guy wearing an Arnold ribbon.

[ddelaney103]

Concur.  Just have him write out the details (what sqdn, when, etc) and sign it for his file.

Worrying about "stolen valor" in the case of an Arnold ribbon is a waste of time.

[Stonewall]

Worrying about "stolen valor" in the case of an Arnold ribbon is a waste of time.

Hey, it took me 2 years to earn my Arnold ribbon...I'll be [darn]ed if someone is just gonna show up claiming he earned such an award without proof....It takes determination, hard work, intestinal fortitude and the drive to achieve such an award...

KIRT!!!  Wake up, you're having a horrible nightmare...

[Duke Dillio]

Best two years of you life Kirt?   

[JCW0312]

My take:  Bearing in mind that this is taken from CAPR 39-2 dealing with cadets rejoining.

4-2. a. 1) Cadets rejoining after a break in service will be credited with previous accomplishments as evidenced in their personnel files.

Therefore if the personnel file no longer exists, you can not credit an individual with previous accomplishments because there is no CAPF 66 or equivalent to serve as evidence of such.

True. But there have been many cases where national has given former cadets credit for accomplishments based on clippings from newsletters documenting accomplishments, etc.

Also, it says "as evidenced in their personnel files". What counts as evidence? Would a statement placed in their personnel file from a Capt and a couple of Lt's?

[MIKE]

I'd argue that it implies CAPF 66 or equivalent with signatures and CAPF 52 - or equivalent with signatures.  Particularly since the CAPF 52- serves as the primary promotion document.

[arajca]

For my Earhart, my commander accepted a copy of the CAPNews cadet awards list from National.