Common Uniform Infractions?

[Major Carrales]

There are two options:

1.  Bring the problem to light, even if it hurts someone's feelings, so others who see this will think twice before making the same mistake.  Thus fixing the problem before it occurs.

2.  Ignore it and it will go away.

While #2 would be awesome if it worked, it won't work.

So you are saying it is correct to lambast fellow CAP officers and cadets in an online setting and exposing, not only them, but yourself to ridicule (since ideally if this occued in your unit or nearby you were remiss in correcting it) is the better policy?

Here's the real answer...

"Praise in Public, Condemn in Private."

If not, any that post pictures to open us all to ridicule are more a part of the PROBLEM than the SOLUTION.

[jb512]

There are two options:

1.  Bring the problem to light, even if it hurts someone's feelings, so others who see this will think twice before making the same mistake.  Thus fixing the problem before it occurs.

2.  Ignore it and it will go away.

While #2 would be awesome if it worked, it won't work.

So you are saying it is correct to lambast fellow CAP officers and cadets in an online setting and exposing, not only them, but yourself to ridicule (since ideally if this occued in your unit or nearby you were remiss in correcting it) is the better policy?

Here's the real answer...

"Praise in Public, Condemn in Private."

If not, any that post pictures to open us all to ridicule are more a part of the PROBLEM than the SOLUTION.

I'm kinda on the fence with this one because sloppy uniforms and gross, negligent uniform violations bug the hell out of me.  It makes the rest of us look like slugs, and it's so easy to go look in the book and see how it's supposed to be done.

Every one of us has to get dressed, look in the mirror, and say "D@mn, I look good in this".  If you're comfortable enough to do that and then go out in public, you've determined that you're ok with the impression you're throwing out there.

Each one of us has a responsibility to present the best image that we can when we wear a uniform and if you don't hold up your end of the deal, or don't care to, then somebody's going to call you on it one way or another.  And I believe that we should.

[Stonewall]

There are two options:

1.  Bring the problem to light, even if it hurts someone's feelings, so others who see this will think twice before making the same mistake.  Thus fixing the problem before it occurs.

2.  Ignore it and it will go away.

While #2 would be awesome if it worked, it won't work.

So you are saying it is correct to lambast fellow CAP officers and cadets in an online setting and exposing, not only them, but yourself to ridicule (since ideally if this occued in your unit or nearby you were remiss in correcting it) is the better policy?

It wouldn't happen under my supervision or command.  So it's a non-issue.

Here's the real answer...

"Praise in Public, Condemn in Private."

If not, any that post pictures to open us all to ridicule are more a part of the PROBLEM than the SOLUTION.

I can't control what some goofball in another region is doing.  If someone in the proximity of where that picture was taken, or even the photographer didn't have the nuggets to address this major violation to 39-1, then showing the picture on the internet is the least of our problems.

[Major Carrales]

I can't control what some goofball in another region is doing.  If someone in the proximity of where that picture was taken, or even the photographer didn't have the nuggets to address this major violation to 39-1, then showing the picture on the internet is the least of our problems.

How then does disgraceful commentary on the internet correct any of that?  From whence came that pic?

These seem to be from the Delaware Wing, anyone care to explain and correct this for us?  Seems like it would have been better policy to PM someone from the Delaware Wing and have he practice addressed instead of posting an Image and having people show just how unbecoming they could be.

[Fiddes_CAP-065]

1) Boots tucked instead of bloused.
2) " Ranger Rolled" patrol caps
3) Aerosmith black T-shirts under BDU's
4) Sleeves rolled 4 inches above elbows so cadets can show off their 19 inch guns...
5) Obese senior members wearing AF style uniforms that look like sausage casings....
6) State Military reserve, salvation Army, or ACA uniforms worn to CAP activities.
7) Queer eye for the straight guy-inspired multi-color squadron caps.
8) Is that a pledge pin on your uniform?!!!


Major Lord

Disabled smileys -MIKE

I believe the ranger rolled patrol caps is unit choice

Its not just the senior members that have the obesity problem, I have seen plenty of cadets

[JayT]

1) Boots tucked instead of bloused.
2) " Ranger Rolled" patrol caps
3) Aerosmith black T-shirts under BDU's
4) Sleeves rolled 4 inches above elbows so cadets can show off their 19 inch guns...
5) Obese senior members wearing AF style uniforms that look like sausage casings....
6) State Military reserve, salvation Army, or ACA uniforms worn to CAP activities.
7) Queer eye for the straight guy-inspired multi-color squadron caps.
8) Is that a pledge pin on your uniform?!!!


Major Lord

Disabled smileys -MIKE

I believe the ranger rolled patrol caps is unit choice

Its not just the senior members that have the obesity problem, I have seen plenty of cadets

The 'ranger roll' is never, ever okay.

[jb512]

I can't control what some goofball in another region is doing.  If someone in the proximity of where that picture was taken, or even the photographer didn't have the nuggets to address this major violation to 39-1, then showing the picture on the internet is the least of our problems.

How then does disgraceful commentary on the internet correct any of that?  From whence came that pic?

These seem to be from the Delaware Wing, anyone care to explain and correct this for us?  Seems like it would have been better policy to PM someone from the Delaware Wing and have he practice addressed instead of posting an Image and having people show just how unbecoming they could be.

I didn't see any disgraceful commentary, just a reference posted as a "what not to do" because of the uniform violations.  The person wearing that uniform obviously considered it to be presentable in public, and as a result lost all "expectation of privacy", as they say.

With few exceptions, you wouldn't find anyone in the RM wearing a RM uniform like that without getting an adjustment.

[Briski]

Yeah, some of those "incorrect uniform pic" threads can get pretty out of line. Embarrassing, even.  But they served to be a huge benefit to my professional development as a cadet.

The squadron I was a member of WIWAC wasn't run too well. The instruction I received from the cadet staff on proper uniform wear came not in the form of classroom instruction, but in the form of yelling at me for failing to meet the standards during weekly uniform inspections when they had not taught me the standards to begin with.

I joined during the period where the only CAPM 39-1 sent in the new cadet packet was a few pages of pics stapled together. I learned how to wear my uniform by seeing people pick apart the uniforms in those pics. And then I learned where to find 39-1 online, and how to look up the answers for myself in the regs.

As I progressed, those pics served as a great tool to help me prepare myself for inspecting other cadets' uniforms. I'd look at the pics and see what I could find wrong, and then read the posts to see what infractions I'd missed.

They would have been incredibly helpful for bringing myself up to speed on all the crazy uniform changes that took place while I was away when I came back from college for the summers of 2006 and 2007, too.

Yeah, they can turn kinda nasty sometimes. But just like everything else about these discussion forums, as long as people keep things professional, they have the potential to be a pretty dagon sweet and useful training tool.

[Major Carrales]

I didn't see any disgraceful commentary, just a reference posted as a "what not to do" because of the uniform violations.  The person wearing that uniform obviously considered it to be presentable in public, and as a result lost all "expectation of privacy", as they say.

My original comments were warning against such commentary.  It was a preemptive strike.  It is, however, strange that folks seem to be keen on defending the practice of "dog piling" on uniform violations than taking the steps to correct them.

[jb512]

I didn't see any disgraceful commentary, just a reference posted as a "what not to do" because of the uniform violations.  The person wearing that uniform obviously considered it to be presentable in public, and as a result lost all "expectation of privacy", as they say.

My original comments were warning against such commentary.  It was a preemptive strike.  It is, however, strange that folks seem to be keen on defending the practice of "dog piling" on uniform violations than taking the steps to correct them.

Well we've been pretty civilized about it.  As you said, no one has dog piled yet and even though the potential is there, we've merely pointed it out.

Stonewall covered the correction steps earlier by saying that would never happen under his command and that's the way all commanders, or the senior officer present there, should be.

I am a Deputy Commander for seniors here and just put on a mini-SLS for our squadron last tuesday night.  I prepared a power point to go over some of the things that needed brushing up on from uniforms, to customs and courtesies, to proper signatures and abbreviations in emails.  Our commander saw the issues and took steps to correct them.

[Hawk200]

I didn't see any disgraceful commentary, just a reference posted as a "what not to do" because of the uniform violations.  The person wearing that uniform obviously considered it to be presentable in public, and as a result lost all "expectation of privacy", as they say.

My original comments were warning against such commentary.  It was a preemptive strike.  It is, however, strange that folks seem to be keen on defending the practice of "dog piling" on uniform violations than taking the steps to correct them.

Not that I advocate "dog-piling", but what do you do when someone has been advised to wear appropriate uniform, and doesn't? Where do you go from there? Sometimes the only option left is positive peer pressure. Many people will straighten up if they know they're not taken seriously.

Some of the problems we have are people that willfully violate the pubs, and just don't care. They like to think that they impress people with their uniforms, when a lot of times they're just posers. The posers will continue with their behaviour even after you talk to them. Sometimes other avenues must be taken.

[BillB]

I commanded an encampment where one class was on the wearing of the uniform. The Instructor introduced me as Commander and I welcomed the cadets (in full view of all cadets in the room). Then I wlked down and talked to a few cadets scattered around the room and left. The instructor then asked the cadets to get out pencils and paper. After they did. He announced "The Commander had 12 things wrong with his uniform list them".
Amazing 75% said my shoes weren't shined (they were) but didn't notice the white socks. After they finished I came back and ran the class and explained the 12 things wrong were things I'd witnessed at that encampment on cadet uniform errors. From that day on you would have to search real hard to find a cadet or senior with a uniform infraction. The cadets learned from SEEING the uniform errors and thus could understand the correct wearing of the uniform. This became a standard class at all encampments I commanded (back in the 60's and 70's)

[mikeylikey]

^ I never cared for those "whats wrong with my uniform classes".  Most of those Cadets are nervous just being there.....the others are not even paying attention since the Commander walked in the room.

When someone asks "whats wrong with my uniform?", or what is wrong with this persons uniform?"......the correct response should always be THE PERSON WEARING IT! 

[Major Carrales]

Not that I advocate "dog-piling", but what do you do when someone has been advised to wear appropriate uniform, and doesn't? Where do you go from there? Sometimes the only option left is positive peer pressure. Many people will straighten up if they know they're not taken seriously.

Agreed, however, posting a pic up here without the knowledge of the person in the pic and making comments about it; then adding more such pics that opening the door for some of the worst comments I've read on these forums (hit the CADET STUFF links to read a few of them) does little to remedy this since the peer pressure you mention is not getting to the person in the pic.

TO EVERYONE:
So, who's going to e-mail the Delaware Wing WEB MASTER and get these practice of wearing berets addressed.  Don't tell me it has to be me?  How about the original person who posted it?

[Major Carrales]

I commanded an encampment where one class was on the wearing of the uniform. The Instructor introduced me as Commander and I welcomed the cadets (in full view of all cadets in the room). Then I wlked down and talked to a few cadets scattered around the room and left. The instructor then asked the cadets to get out pencils and paper. After they did. He announced "The Commander had 12 things wrong with his uniform list them".
Amazing 75% said my shoes weren't shined (they were) but didn't notice the white socks. After they finished I came back and ran the class and explained the 12 things wrong were things I'd witnessed at that encampment on cadet uniform errors. From that day on you would have to search real hard to find a cadet or senior with a uniform infraction. The cadets learned from SEEING the uniform errors and thus could understand the correct wearing of the uniform. This became a standard class at all encampments I commanded (back in the 60's and 70's)

A very effective method, when we are in a classroom or encampment envrionment.  However, on the WEB, it serves little purpose.  I've seen the sort of comments that have got threads locked.   That is a practice we do not need here at CAPTALK.

[pixelwonk]

stop yelling.

[Major Lord]

1) Boots tucked instead of bloused.
2) " Ranger Rolled" patrol caps
3) Aerosmith black T-shirts under BDU's
4) Sleeves rolled 4 inches above elbows so cadets can show off their 19 inch guns...
5) Obese senior members wearing AF style uniforms that look like sausage casings....
6) State Military reserve, salvation Army, or ACA uniforms worn to CAP activities.
7) Queer eye for the straight guy-inspired multi-color squadron caps.
8) Is that a pledge pin on your uniform?!!!


Major Lord

Disabled smileys -MIKE

I believe the ranger rolled patrol caps is unit choice

Its not just the senior members that have the obesity problem, I have seen plenty of cadets

The Ranger Roll is not within the Squadrons' discretion. It is not permissable. We can't do much about obese cadets until they turn 18. I agree that a corpulent cadet (or senior) wearing the Air Force uniform is a stain on our  organization, but it is permissable and they don't have many other options. If they created a sausage body uniform for Cadets ( as they have kindly done for Seniors) they would likely feel that we are discriminating. ( in the "bad" sense of the word)

Major Lord

[SAR-EMT1]

What I saw tonight in one place:
White shirt-gray pants combo with blue epaulets.
White shirt-gray pants combo with black tie.
Blue blazer combo but with black blazer.
Two young officers/ former cadets with folding tactical knives clipped to their blues pants pockets.
All of the above received awards for various things, accepted one for someone else, or was helping present them.

Makes me thankful that EVERY Senior in my unit is former RM. (In my own,lone, case; almost military ) And the senior cadets are dual-hat JROTC. Between these forces, there is no possibility that such mistakes could occur in my unit. 

[Dragoon]

And while I completely agree with you on the golf shirt's use for light work duty, that's not what 39-1 says.  Whether we agree or not, it's the equivalent of short sleeve service dress.

Can you cite on that?  I can't find anything that really defines what the golf shirt "is".

Sure - table 4-8, line 5

[Eclipse]

And while I completely agree with you on the golf shirt's use for light work duty, that's not what 39-1 says.  Whether we agree or not, it's the equivalent of short sleeve service dress.

Can you cite on that?  I can't find anything that really defines what the golf shirt "is".

Sure - table 4-8, line 5

Well, that's ure what it says, although line 4 says the same thing for the aviator shirt.
4 is a no brainer, but 5 is a stretch (IMHO) - something else to fix in the next rev of 39-1.

Table 4-8. CAP Distinctive Uniform Equivalents to USAF-Style Uniform
4 Aviator Shirt with Epaulets (=)  AF-style light blue shirt
5 Knit Shirts (=) AF-style light