Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[LSThiker]

Why is 25% of the total CAP officer force, considered too high?

While you cannot compare the real military to CAP in terms of percentages, but essentially, this is how the CAP / USAF looks at rank structure in CAP:


Grade
Air Force percentage


Colonel  1.8
Lieutenant colonel  4.6
Major  14.0
Captain  32.0
First lieutenant and second lieutenant (when combined with the number authorized for general officer grades under section 12004 of this title)  47.6

So it is interesting in that there is essentially a 1:1:1:1:1:1 ratio of CAP officers.

I have seen this at NESA, encampments, local SAR schools, RSC, SLS and CLC.  Activity directors do not fail people!  I know of an individual who received credit for SLS and didn't even return for the second day of training.  I know lots of cases of tech ratings where the person simply spent six months in the track and got the rating.  Without completing required distance learning and so on.

Well this a combination of commanders and directors not wanting to deal with the issue of failing people and the general membership wanting the credit without having to do the work.  At the same time, the criteria for credit is so broad that really it is hard to fail. 

[LSThiker]

Strange how the requirements are so well laid out for the rank and file, but virtually non-existent for full bird or general.  Basically the requirement is to be part of the GOB system.  No additional levels required at all..  But then again, I forgot, not all pigs are created equal..

I think you mean "All animals are created equal but some are more equal than others" (Orwell, Animal Farm). 

What do you mean the requirements are non-existent for full bird or general?  If you are talking about the CSAG report, they were only asked to consider SM-Lt Col.  Besides, Wing Commander and above has always been a political position.  This is why I liked the idea of "Preferred Min 1 yr TIG as Lt Col." for wing commanders and the requirement for completion of the Master Rating in the Command track (although if you serve as Wing Commander you are nearly guaranteed to complete this anyway). 

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

As I understand the very basics of the AF system that 14% of Majors tend to make Lt Col or leave in the near term. Considering we don't limit field grade to the number of required slots I don't think our structure is too far out of alignment.

[Eclipse]

Why is 25% of the total CAP officer force, considered too high?

In the current paradigm it is actually TOO LOW.

Since the stated goal of CAP PD is to build better officers and staff, at least theoretically,
any member in the organization for at least 10 years should be expected to achieve Lt Col.

There are no billets or manning tables in regards to grade, so there is no reason every members
can't attain the silver oaks (financial issues regarding in-residence classes not withstanding).

So any assertion that indicates that any arbitrary number of "x" grade is "too high" has to also
provide what the optimum number should be, along with some sort of actual reason behind the number.

[Panache]

So, some people here are now saying that proposed changes to regulations buried in some CSAG meeting notes is now "proper notification to the membership at large"?

Is that the story we're going with now?

Yes.

Publicly available agendas and meeting minutes from the body charged with reviewing and recommending changes to the regulations over a year and a half before the regulation change occurs are absolutely proper notification.

I honestly do not know if this is sarcasm or not.

[ColonelJack]

I still wish there was a path to colonel that didn't involve becoming a wing/region commander.

But, that's just me.

Jack

[AirAux]

Actually, I guess I got my quotes confused.  Instead of Orwell, I was recalling a medical treatise:  Searching for Trichinella: not all pigs are created equal.

Pozio E.

LOL..     

[LSThiker]

Actually, I guess I got my quotes confused.  Instead of Orwell, I was recalling a medical treatise:  Searching for Trichinella: not all pigs are created equal.

Pozio E.

LOL..     

I remember looking at that article.  Did not pay too much attention to the title obviously. 

[LSThiker]

I still wish there was a path to colonel that didn't involve becoming a wing/region commander.

But, that's just me.

Jack

There is.  It is called either Chief IG or go and become a Chaplain or Lawyer (or both).

The grade of colonel is reserved for members of the CAP Command Council, region vice commanders, the Chief of the Chaplain Corps, Chief of the Legal Officer Corps, and the CAP Inspector General.

Although previously you could have been:

The grade of colonel is reserved for members of the CAP Command Council, region vice commanders, the Chief of the Chaplain Corps, Chief of the Legal Officer Corps, CAP Inspector General, National Chief of Safety, National Historian, National Controller and the Chief of the CAP Health Program.

[AirAux]

I thought region commanders were commanders and not vice commanders, interesting...

[LSThiker]

I thought region commanders were commanders and not vice commanders, interesting...

They are.  The region commander falls under the Command Council in that list.  Region vice commanders are also afforded the rank of colonel, if not already a previous wing commander.

10. Minimum Qualifications for Consideration as Region Commander are:
a. Hold the CAP grade of Colonel.
4 CAPR 35-9 22 OCTOBER 2012
b. Completed Level IV of the CAP Professional Development Training Program.
c. Served as wing commander, region vice commander or member of the NEC (prior to
October 2012).
d. Budget and asset acquisition knowledge gained within or outside CAP.
e. Five years supervisory experience gained within or outside CAP.
f. Ten years total CAP membership with no less than 5 continuous years of service prior to
appointment.
g. Live within the region for which applying for.
h. Prior to appointment as region commander, individual must complete a successful
fingerprint rescreening.

[FW]

I still wish there was a path to colonel that didn't involve becoming a wing/region commander.

But, that's just me.

Jack

Jack, as noted previously, you are promoted to the grade of Col if you are appointed a region vice commander.  You are also promoted to Col when appointed to the position of National Historian, National Safety Officer, National IG, and National HS officer.  The National Commander may also promote individuals to the grade of Colonel for special reasons; sort of the ultimate "GOBN" award...

I wouldn't call the Grade of Colonel "political" though. :angel:

[LSThiker]

You are also promoted to Col when appointed to the position of National Historian, National Safety Officer, National IG, and National HS officer. 

No longer.  Just chief chaplain, lawyer, or IG.  All others were removed.

I guess I will no longer be able to make full colonel anymore.  Oh well.  (<<no sarcasm in that, I actually would not mind taking the National Historian position some day in the medium-long distance future when more free time opens up).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

[darn]. Now I have to go to CLC, get my Senior rating, and go to two conferences. Bummer.

I already have all those...I went to CLC in 1994, have attended every Wing conference (in my former Wing) between 1994 and 1998, a Region Conference in 1999...and a Master rating in Administration.

[JeffDG]

I thought region commanders were commanders and not vice commanders, interesting...

Region commanders are covered as members of the Command Council.  Region CVs are in addition to.

[Grumpy]

It appears that they want to mirror the promotion requirements for RealMilitary™ officers as so much is realistic for a all-volunteer civilian force.

The NCO system was officially put into place, as well.

Has anyone been able to determine what the duties and responsibilities of the new wazoo CAP NCOs are going to be or is this just another case of putting the cart before the horse?

[Devil Doc]

Got this Email from my Wing Commander:

FYI - this addresses several of the concerns that were raised when 35-5 was published early last week. In particular the grandfathering has now been extended to include both time in grade and Professional Development progression, for the next promotion, provided that the date of grade for the current grade is on or before 11 Aug 2014.  Bottom line is that if you were promoted to your current grade on or before 11 Aug 2014, the "old" requirements for your next grade are in effect.  An example would be a Major who was promoted on 31 May 2014, would require 4 years time in grade and Level IV to be completed prior to promotion to Lt Colonel. 



Just got this Email from Susie Parker:



For your attention,



CAPR 35-5, Change 1, 22 Aug 14, CAP Officer and Noncommissioned Officer Appointments and Promotions, is posted on the publications page at:



http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R035_005_489E25C089E93.pdf

The most recent changes are to page 5, paragraph 1-5c and the Figure 2 Note on page 11.  The IT department is in the process of updating the online promotion application to reflect the grandfather clause.  Any promotions that need to be processed prior to the change to the online system can be submitted to National Headquarters/DP for processing.   

Additionally, CAP Pamphlet 20, Civil Air Patrol National Staff Structure, Selection Process and Job Descriptions, dated December 2011 has been rescinded.  The staffing process is being revised as described in the National Commander's briefing to the Region and Wing Commanders at the Annual Conference.  The new process will be published as soon as it is finalized.



VR,

[FW]

You are also promoted to Col when appointed to the position of National Historian, National Safety Officer, National IG, and National HS officer. 

No longer.  Just chief chaplain, lawyer, or IG.  All others were removed.

I guess I will no longer be able to make full colonel anymore.  Oh well.  (<<no sarcasm in that, I actually would not mind taking the National Historian position some day in the medium-long distance future when more free time opens up).

Although not specifically mentioned in 35-5, the CSAG will may promote those members assigned to those positions.  We shall see...

[vento]

[darn]. Now I have to go to CLC, get my Senior rating, and go to two conferences. Bummer.

I already have all those...I went to CLC in 1994, have attended every Wing conference (in my former Wing) between 1994 and 1998, a Region Conference in 1999...and a Master rating in Administration.

When was the last time you submitted your case for promotion? Or did you piss off somebody spectacularly? 

[Eclipse]

I still wish there was a path to colonel that didn't involve becoming a wing/region commander.

But, that's just me.

Jack

Jack, as noted previously, you are promoted to the grade of Col if you are appointed a region vice commander.  You are also promoted to Col when appointed to the position of National Historian, National Safety Officer, National IG, and National HS officer.  The National Commander may also promote individuals to the grade of Colonel for special reasons; sort of the ultimate "GOBN" award...

I wouldn't call the Grade of Colonel "political" though. :angel:

Just a coincidence that right around the time Region CVs got eagles, Regions started appointing more then one.