Updated CAPR 35-5 released today (11 Aug 14)

[vento]

The waiver process should have included any previously submitted promotion paperwork that had not yet been approved or denied prior to the new regulation being published would fall under the old requirements. NCRblues is a perfect example as to why.

The waiver is a major joke. They decided to waive TIG only and not the PD level. Guess what? For most of us, by the time the member completes the new PD level requirement he or she will meet the new TIG requirement anyway. The TIG waiver is practically just a gesture without ANY meat in it.

[lordmonar]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering. 

[abdsp51]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering.

Damage control....

[NC Hokie]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering.

Is this an old promotion committee or a new one?

[RMW14]

My better half is also in the same boat as some other people. She is eligible for Maj but it was held back by the Group King because she isn't on Group Staff. Now she has to complete a Master rating and go to RSC even though she has been eligible for promotion for 4 or 5 months. I hope they do something because there will be a lot of people who won't do PD because it is not workable both money wise and time off of work.

[JackFrost3k]

Heated topic!

[MacGruff]

I've done the analysis I earlier spoke about by taking every Active Senior Member (did you also notice that they are changing the title from Senior Member to Active Member in the regulation?) and figuring out the impact on each.

First, the distribution in my squadron
Major - 13%
Captain - 25%
1st Lieut - 17%
2nd Lieut - 21%
SM - 21%

Only the SMs are totally NOT affected by the rule change.

Of the others:
13% will have their next promotion be delayed by 6 months due to new TIG requirement
50% will have to wait a full year of additional TIG

As far as PD goes:
33% need to move up one PD level from where they are now
33% need to move up two PD levels
4% need to move up three PD levels


I suspect my squadron is reasonably representative and we have over two thirds of our Active Members (Seniors?) affected by this.

[Tim Medeiros]

I had my assistant director crunch some numbers region-wide, when I get back from Vegas and he gets back from a family trip, I'll see if I can't get him to post the results, or get the info from him.

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

[Spaceman3750]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

People are mad because they've been working towards a goal, investing time and money, only to have the bar moved significantly.

To say that the members who are upset are only in it to be military wannabe's is highly disrespectful of their effort and service to our organization.

[majdomke]

People are mad because they've been working towards a goal, investing time and money, only to have the bar moved significantly.

To say that the members who are upset are only in it to be military wannabe's is highly disrespectful of their effort and service to our organization.

Bravo

[Eclipse]

People are mad because they've been working towards a goal, investing time and money, only to have the bar moved significantly.

To say that the members who are upset are only in it to be military wannabe's is highly disrespectful of their effort and service to our organization.

Bravo

+1 - and it's another place that you can't have it both ways.

When we discuss bling and awards, we're told by various members what an important part of the
reward system that is.  People quote Napoleon and Maslow, and generally go on about how
the decs and badges are an inexpensive way to reward people, and if a badge gets them to show up,
so be it, etc., etc.

And that's fair. There's no question the military affiliation and pomp and circumstance is a recruiting attractor.

Then if that's on the table, it's not cricket to call it into question when rules are arbitrarily changed.
There are people who have to work >very< hard towards their grade, count it as a major life achievement,
and have every right to be bent when they are ONE DAY from their goal and NHQ decides they should do
some more work and spend a good deal more money.  Why?  Well..."because they should...."

[vento]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In a perfect world there should be no difference to what you put as "enjoy their membership and service". But in reality, members are not treated the same for doing the same job.

We are all volunteers trying to do the job professionally and I would say that the majority joined to serve and it was definitely not for the uniform. Problem is that members like myself then find out after being in the organization for a while that while we emphasize "Equal opportunity" and we even have to pass a test, the organization doesn't really practice it. Grade is a very visible area where the problem is magnified. Initially I learned to live with it even if I didn't like or agree with it. What difference did this new revision make? You ask. The difference for me is that the inequality in opportunities is now even larger and I no longer want to learn to live with it. If grade means nothing for CAP, then why have it? Just remove the grade and rank from everybody and let us all focus on the missions.

[lordmonar]

I would not say the changes to 35-5 are arbitrary.   I get it you get miffed when the bar is moved but to quit over it kind of speaks that maybe you are in CAP for the wrong reasons.  I know I would be pissed if my "free ride" suddenly cost me more time and money.  But to say that CAP is making theses changes just because is just not true.   And it is language like that that stops the discussion and makes it harder to make needed changes to the program

[FW]

Hold off any decisions.  Promotion committee is going to make a change to the reg soon.
My guess is they are going to expand the grandfathering. 

I'm just wondering; "Back in the day", we had an open comment period before publishing regulations. Did that practice come to an end with CAPM 39-1?  We also had a National Board to vet and approve regulations before they became the "law of the land".  Regulation by committee may be swinging the pendulum a little too far the other way. 

In any event; it seems to be a poor practice to publish, get feedback, change, get more feedback, change, get more feedback, and then apply waivers, exceptions, etc... There must be a better way.

YMMV!

[Shuman 14]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

People are mad because they've been working towards a goal, investing time and money, only to have the bar moved significantly.

To say that the members who are upset are only in it to be military wannabe's is highly disrespectful of their effort and service to our organization.

There was no disrespect intended. The bar was moved on me as well, but the mission continues. I'm not quitting because it'll take me longer to make Lt Col. That's not why I joined CAP.

[Storm Chaser]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

[vento]

Sometimes I wonder if the main reason many join CAP is to wear a military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade. Anyone who was committed to the organization before this revision and was enjoying their membership and service in CAP, could still do so now even with the new PD requirements for promotion. What have change with regards to their service? Is getting promoted more important than volunteering and accomplishing the mission?

In any volunteer Service the "paycheck" is the bling (military-style uniform, awards, badges and grade).

Mess anyone's paycheck there will be a case of butt-hurt.

Simple human nature.

Where's the "bling" in organizations such as the ARC, AmeriCorps, Boys and Girls Club, Habitat for Humanity, etc. The list of volunteer organizations is long and the majority of them don't offer "bling" as an incentive.

And that would be fine too if we gave no blings. As matter of fact in my city there are a variety of volunteer jobs and none has any bling. On the same page an ex police chief that joins the police volunteer patrol does not get any special promotion or title neither, everybody is treated the same way. We treating members differently with special promotions is a big part of the problem, we always fix the non special peoples requirements but do nothing about the "special" ones. If they are really special, then fine. But over half of them can't even use their skill for the good of our mission. I too joined the program for the mission and that is all I will do now, PD is irrelevant and I could care less.

[Storm Chaser]

I agree for the most part, although I wouldn't go as far as to say that PD is irrelevant. It can be better, yes. But it's not irrelevant.