Senator John McCain claims CAP is Pork Barrel Spending (Again)

[Devil Doc]

No Money, No Plane

No Money, No Gas

No Money, No Rescue

No Money, No Training

OMG... What will CAP Do?

[A.Member]

At one time, Sen. McCain was a Congressional Squadron member.  I don't know if he still is or not.  However, if he is, National should revoke or, at the very least, non-renew his membership at year end out of principle (there are also a couple options under 35-3, Section B, 4(b) - not that these necessarily apply to Congressional memberships). 

While he may not care about something like this, our membership does.  If nothing else, it let's him know that we're paying attention and that we don't approve. You can't be part of the Congressional Squadron and claim to support the organization while promoting specific legislation to cut the organization.  Pfft..politicians.

Tit for tat much?  He's a politician and he as well as all the rest of are trying though in a piss poor attempt to put together a budget.  Cuts are being made across the board and unfortunately now that sequestration is here everyone is going to be feeling it.

Cutting budgets are one thing.  His actions are something altogether different and cannot be directly tied to sequestration.  Don't confuse the two. 

You're absolutely correct; he's a politician...and an opportunist.  As such, we should in no way endorse his actions nor allow him in any way to indicate he is supportive of us.  I'd like to say that we are virtually unregistered on his radar but somehow that doesn't seem to be the case.  So, as a politician, he will understand that just as he does not support CAP, he does not have the support of CAP when he is no longer considered a member.  It's a message of principle and integrity.

[A.Member]

I totally get the anger behind this statement, but I'm not sure that would accomplish much.

It's really not anger.  It's simply a reasonable response given the situation. 

The Congressional Squadron is an honorary membership created for the purpose of representing support for CAP.  Given McCain's action(s), how could one reasonably justify his continued membership?  It can't be done. 

There should be enough intellectual honesty in the process to only keep those that are truly supportive.  Continuing memberships such as McCain's truly dilutes the value of the Congressional/Legislative Squadrons.

[abdsp51]

I totally get the anger behind this statement, but I'm not sure that would accomplish much.

It's really not anger.  It's a reasonable response given the situation. 

The Congressional Squadron is an honorary membership created for the purpose of representing support for CAP.  Given McCain's action(s), how could one reasonably justify his continued membership?  It can't be done.  There should be enough intellectual honesty in the process to only keep those that are truly supportive.

So by your logic lets 2b every cadet who is not actively engaged in AE and at the min not a GT trainee and the same for all SMs who are not at least a trainee in something ES related and isn't in the AE specialty track..  Your logic is flawed he can support us and make a choice to have the budget cut to alleviate the budget.  And again the AF budget is being cut so we can expect ours to be cut too. 

[A.Member]

So by your logic lets 2b every cadet who is not actively engaged in AE and at the min not a GT trainee and the same for all SMs who are not at least a trainee in something ES related and isn't in the AE specialty track..  Your logic is flawed he can support us and make a choice to have the budget cut to alleviate the budget.  And again the AF budget is being cut so we can expect ours to be cut too.

Apples and oranges...and, to be frank, a ridiculous attempt at an analogy.   

The Congressional Squadron is an honorary membership.  It exists for the sole purpose of symbolic support of CAP. 

As for the budget cuts, familiarize yourself with the situation.  McCain's proposal is completely seperate from the issue of sequestration.

[abdsp51]

So by your logic lets 2b every cadet who is not actively engaged in AE and at the min not a GT trainee and the same for all SMs who are not at least a trainee in something ES related and isn't in the AE specialty track..  Your logic is flawed he can support us and make a choice to have the budget cut to alleviate the budget.  And again the AF budget is being cut so we can expect ours to be cut too.

Apples and oranges...and, to be frank, a ridiculous attempt at an analogy.   

The Congressional Squadron is an honorary membership.  It exists for the sole purpose of symbolic support of CAP. 

As for the budget cuts, familiarize yourself with the situation.  McCain's proposal is completely seperate from the issue of sequestration.

McCain's proposal is about cutting waste and do we really need an additional 15 mil over the authorized budget?  You propose termination based on your perception of things.  He can support us and recommend cutting funds if there is waste even within CAP.  At the end of the day if this budget crisis doesnt get sorted there are going to be alot of people not getting paid come the end of the month, not to mention the DOD Civs who are going to have their pay axed by 20% due to the furloughs. 

[A.Member]

McCain's proposal is about cutting waste and do we really need an additional 15 mil over the authorized budget?  You propose termination based on your perception of things.  He can support us and recommend cutting funds if there is waste even within CAP.  At the end of the day if this budget crisis doesnt get sorted there are going to be alot of people not getting paid come the end of the month, not to mention the DOD Civs who are going to have their pay axed by 20% due to the furloughs.

As stated earlier, my suggestion is to actually familiarize yourself with situation rather than make continued assumptions and statements from a position of ignorance.

[abdsp51]

Open you own eyes and realize what happens to Ma blue happens to us.  And if you think you know so much and can do better I suggest you run for the AZ seat and get elected.  Again you fail to realize the senator even though I may not agree with him is doing his job and sometimes the right thing to do isn't necessarily the most popular.  And I dare you to tell the GI who lives paycheck to paycheck with a spouse and kid to feed that these are two separate actions. 

[Devil Doc]

I dont like the bill for the Fact it involves the VA budget. Thats what grinds my gears, cutting the VA budget Really? Seems like it will be cheaper for them if we all committed suicide. I love my country, i love my CAP, i love my Team. Me and the govment aint on the same terms right now.

[abdsp51]

I dont like the bill for the Fact it involves the VA budget. Thats what grinds my gears, cutting the VA budget Really? Seems like it will be cheaper for them if we all committed suicide. I love my country, i love my CAP, i love my Team. Me and the govment aint on the same terms right now.

I'm with ya man, I think is complete babboonary that someone can serve get injured or something and then have to fight for VA benefits especially when everything is documented. 

[lordmonar]

Open you own eyes and realize what happens to Ma blue happens to us.  And if you think you know so much and can do better I suggest you run for the AZ seat and get elected.  Again you fail to realize the senator even though I may not agree with him is doing his job and sometimes the right thing to do isn't necessarily the most popular.  And I dare you to tell the GI who lives paycheck to paycheck with a spouse and kid to feed that these are two separate actions.

I will.

Bottom line.......we still have to do SAR.....even if we cut everything else in our budget.....we still have to do SAR and Train for SAR.....and we can still do it cheaper then the USAF or any other government agency.

[JayT]

McCain states that he wants to cut funding from DOD and find us funding another way? Sounds Nice Right? Good luck with that.

BTW, not to Grind anybodies Gears, I think they should cut subsidized housing, welfare etc. Im tired of working my but off. Everytime I pass goverment housing I see Brand new vehicles, with rims, big screen TVs new clothes and new shoes. I havnt baught me a pair of shoes, shirts, or pants in years. My newest clothing items are CAP only.

Redistribution of Wealth. Psshh If you dont work or try, you should not get a free ride.

Yes, because if there's one thing this country needs, it is to roll back social welfare and cut the budge to programs that keep people feed and housed.

For what it's worth, this is what I wrote my senator.

Sir

My name is JT. I'm a paramedic working in the New York City and Long Island region. Working in the Emergency Medical Service requires a number of skills besides those needed to place an IV catheter, draw up medication, or insert an endo-tracheal tube. It requires skills such as critical thinking, leadership, studying, and courage. I believe that the knowledge of these skills are sorely lacking in much of our youth today. I had the fortune to learn these skills while serving as a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol, the Auxiliary to the United States Air Force. The Cadet Program has produced a lengthy roster of civilian executives, high ranking military officers and NCO's, members of the medical field, firefighters, police officers, EMS Paramedic's and EMT's, other other important and valuable citizens. While I am no longer an active member, I can say for certain that it has made me the man I am today. In addition to the leadership and personal skills taught in the cadet program, CAP is also responsible for much of the inland Search and Rescue in the country. Without CAP, Search and Rescue would have to be tasked to already overworked and understaffed public service agencies who lack the institutional knowledge and training that CAP possess on this subject, or tasked to the military or private organizations who's costs are astronomical compared to CAP. Also, the aerospace education mission of CAP is a vital part of maintaining this nations strong history of civil aviation and aeronautics. I understand that the Honorable Senator John McCain from Arizona has proposed certain cuts to the Congressional controlled budget to CAP. I would urge you as my Senator to oppose these cuts, and realize the impact on countless lives they would have. I realize this nation still faces difficult economic ties, but CAP is simply too valuable to face the axes.

Very Respectfully

JT, BA, NREMT-P

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yes, because if there's one thing this country needs, is to roll back social welfare and cut the budge to programs that keep people feed and housed.

Yes.  Absolutely.  The kind of needless spending that kept my mother and I from having to sleep in our car too much after my birth father threw us out when I was four years old in 1970, without which I probably would not be here today.  Once you've been homeless, you don't forget it.

Such an attitude is even more shortsighted than John McCain's slash-and-burn attitude toward CAP, as I see it.

Again you fail to realize the senator even though I may not agree with him is doing his job and sometimes the right thing to do isn't necessarily the most popular.

John McCain having an axe to grind against CAP is not what I would call "doing the right thing," especially given the myriad of other noncombat tasks DOD does that he is leaving alone.

http://www.403wg.afrc.af.mil/
Hurricane hunting...

http://www.youngstown.afrc.af.mil/units/aerialspraysquadron/index.asp
Using C-130's for aerial spraying...

http://www.920rqw.afrc.af.mil/units/943rescuegroup/index.asp
Using Pave Hawks to rescue CIVILIANS?!

Not to pick on the Air Force Reserve, but I didn't want to cite any Air National Guard units to avoid making the faux-pas of not recognising the State funding they get.

[abdsp51]

He is doing the right thing by identify what he believes is wasteful spending across the board.  And if we as CAP have it then we need to cut it.  I can think of plenty of things that can be cut  but again that is all way above my pay grade.  And nothing has happened yet hell I would be far more worried about a potential govt shutdown that's around the corner. 

[Duke Dillio]

^ I'm not worried about a government shutdown.  In fact, I think it would be more beneficial....   

Think of how a person outside of CAP would feel given the information that is presented and the current socio-economic culture.  I'm betting that if you were a person of limited means, you would probably say that CAP rescues rich people because the majority of the population cannot afford to fly and being a pilot is seen as a rich person's "sport."  As such, I am sure that they wouldn't bat an eye if CAP funding were completely cut.

As to the statement that we need to cut some of our social spending, I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be some adjustment.  There are people in this country who are abusing the welfare system.  There are people in this country who are abusing the unemployment and disability systems.  There are people in this country who are too lazy to hold a job.  There are undocumented immigrants who are abusing the healthcare system.  There are families who abuse the food stamp programs.  If you don't believe this, you are quite simply a fool.  You can come to my neighborhood and see how rampant it is and I live in the middle of nowhere.  The people next door draw Section 8 funds to rent a 3 bedroom, 1 bath house.  The problem is that there are SIX families living in the house (a total of 22 people).  I've watched people in line at the grocery store who pull out three or four Oregon Trail cards (food stamp credit card).  There are farmers in this area who are paid to NOT grow anything!  There are people who need assistance, I will admit that, however there appears to be a whole lot more rotten apples than there are people who actually need government assistance.

The lazy people in this country need motivation to get off their rears and get jobs.  That motivation should include reducing their entitlements until they reach the magical zero.  If you are stubborn, stay lazy, and refuse to get a job (any job), then you deserve to starve.  Don't expect to make 100k a year if you only have a high school diploma.  If you have a job and can't afford all of your bills, you need to learn to BUDGET.  You don't need a cell phone to survive and you don't need to go to the ER when you get a headache.  If you live in an urban area with a good transit system, you don't NEED a car.  Eventually, you will earn money and be able to afford the stuff you WANT.

I know we are headed towards socialism and it scares the heck out of me.  We are headed that direction because our culture is becoming increasingly less educated and lazier by the minute.  I don't have the answer and neither do the politicians so we will simply have to see where we end up after Obamanation.

[abdsp51]

^ I'm not worried about a government shutdown.  In fact, I think it would be more beneficial....   

So you would support the govt shutting down and allowing families to go in more debt and or potentially go homeless because the govt can't get their act together? 

[Duke Dillio]

In short, yes I would support the government shutting down.  I understand that government furloughs are not going to help the debt situation at all.  Even if we shut down the whole government for a month, it wouldn't do anything to help our current debt situation.  Having said that, we all know that the whole government is NOT going to shut down thus my lack of concern.  There are critical areas of the government that will continue to run.  Shutting down the ENTIRE government would quite simply cause chaos and wreak havoc upon the economy.

If there are government families accruing more debt because their salaries are reduced by furloughs, perhaps they are living beyond their means.  Like I said, there are things that people NEED (food, shelter, water) and there are things that people WANT (cell phones, big screen TV's, cable/satellite dishes, internet access, boats).  Reducing your expenses to meet your income is part of balancing your budget. 

There are lots of government workers who are simply WAY overpaid for their services.  The government needs to perform an audit on itself and see where the waste is.  We need to eliminate portions of the government that are not necessary.  Most of us can name a bunch of government programs that could be put on hold or eliminated in an effort to restore us to a manageable financial situation (F-35...).  Government spending is beyond WAY out of control.    Our social and economic policies have led to expenses that are not necessary or prudent (i.e. the war on drugs, government funding for abortions, fruit fly research).  For the most part, our politicians deserve far less than what we are paying them.  If we do not get a handle on our spending, this country will fall when China comes asking for their money....

[abdsp51]

In short, yes I would support the government shutting down.  I understand that government furloughs are not going to help the debt situation at all.  Even if we shut down the whole government for a month, it wouldn't do anything to help our current debt situation.  Having said that, we all know that the whole government is NOT going to shut down thus my lack of concern.  There are critical areas of the government that will continue to run.  Shutting down the ENTIRE government would quite simply cause chaos and wreak havoc upon the economy.

If there are government families accruing more debt because their salaries are reduced by furloughs, perhaps they are living beyond their means.  Like I said, there are things that people NEED (food, shelter, water) and there are things that people WANT (cell phones, big screen TV's, cable/satellite dishes, internet access, boats).  Reducing your expenses to meet your income is part of balancing your budget. 

There are lots of government workers who are simply WAY overpaid for their services.  The government needs to perform an audit on itself and see where the waste is.  We need to eliminate portions of the government that are not necessary.  Most of us can name a bunch of government programs that could be put on hold or eliminated in an effort to restore us to a manageable financial situation (F-35...).  Government spending is beyond WAY out of control.    Our social and economic policies have led to expenses that are not necessary or prudent (i.e. the war on drugs, government funding for abortions, fruit fly research).  For the most part, our politicians deserve far less than what we are paying them.  If we do not get a handle on our spending, this country will fall when China comes asking for their money....

So what what about those families who are doing the best they can and don't have a big screen tv or name brand products who are simply trying to survive.  I am sure you know diapers, formula, clothes for kids are not cheap by any means. And even though some aspects would be open per say those employees would not be getting paid like they should. 

[JayT]

The lazy people in this country need motivation to get off their rears and get jobs.  That motivation should include reducing their entitlements until they reach the magical zero.  If you are stubborn, stay lazy, and refuse to get a job (any job), then you deserve to starve.  Don't expect to make 100k a year if you only have a high school diploma.  If you have a job and can't afford all of your bills, you need to learn to BUDGET.  You don't need a cell phone to survive and you don't need to go to the ER when you get a headache.  If you live in an urban area with a good transit system, you don't NEED a car.  Eventually, you will earn money and be able to afford the stuff you WANT.

I know we are headed towards socialism and it scares the heck out of me.  We are headed that direction because our culture is becoming increasingly less educated and lazier by the minute.  I don't have the answer and neither do the politicians so we will simply have to see where we end up after Obamanation.

Lazy people? Not the mentally ill who have no ability to get the proper follow up treatment and medication due to a lack of family support and a skeletal crew staffing public social service agencies? Not minority populations who after centuries of oppression were expected to suddenly become a fully productive segment of society? Not people who lost there jobs due to the culture of corporate greed that lead to a society where the CEO of a company can make up to 400 times as much as the average worker? Not people who had the simple misfortune to be born in economically depressed area's and never learned many of the life lessons you and I take for the granted? Those are the people that are causing the nations woo?

I'm curious which urban area has a 'good transit system.' Oh, and let's not forget that many of the people who abuse the ED (the bulk of my patient population) don't have access to healthcare any other way. The fact that you reference 'fruit fly research' as an example of pork barrel spending shows you lack a complete understanding of how research, science, and educations works in the world.

[wuzafuzz]

Mega thread drift...enough already. 

I'm all for cutting spending where it makes sense.  If there is waste in CAP, lets eliminate it and perform our missions as efficiently as possible. Any proposal that redirects critical CAP missions to more expensive assets is misguided, is even more wasteful, and deserves to die in committee.