Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[DNall]

I wouldn't advocate changing tapes, either color or lettering, till transition to ABUs. I may indeed approve it with a long phase in period like that while the ABU date is being set, just to establish precedent, then ask Wg CCs to supplement saying keep the ultramarine on BDUs & the new stuff on ABUs. The only thing that's look worse than ultramarine on BDUs is people having dif colors than the guy next to them.

[Psicorp]

What is the regulation? 

AFI 10-2701

2.8. Restrictions on CAP Corporate Activities. Notwithstanding any DoD or Air Force regulation,policy or agreement, the following specific restrictions apply to CAP's corporate activities.
2.8.1. Air Force Markings. CAP Corporation may not use aircraft and resources that are marked with "USAF," "USAF Auxiliary," "US Air Force," or similar identifiers to engage in the law enforcement activities listed in paragraph 2.2.3. of this instruction and its subparagraphs, without prior approval by USAF/XO.
2.8.2. Intelligence Activities. CAP is not an intelligence organization, has no assigned intelligence mission, and will not engage in intelligence activities.2.8.3. Consistent with paragraphs 1.4.3. and 1.4.4., CAP will obtain the reviews described in paragraphs 1.9.4. and 1.9.5. and resolve any aspects disapproved prior to execution of the respective documents.

HA! That explains everything!!   NHQ is just following Reg!

[RogueLeader]

What is the regulation? 

AFI 10-2701

2.8. Restrictions on CAP Corporate Activities. Notwithstanding any DoD or Air Force regulation,policy or agreement, the following specific restrictions apply to CAP's corporate activities.
2.8.1. Air Force Markings. CAP Corporation may not use aircraft and resources that are marked with "USAF," "USAF Auxiliary," "US Air Force," or similar identifiers to engage in the law enforcement activities listed in paragraph 2.2.3. of this instruction and its subparagraphs, without prior approval by USAF/XO.
2.8.2. Intelligence Activities. CAP is not an intelligence organization, has no assigned intelligence mission, and will not engage in intelligence activities.2.8.3. Consistent with paragraphs 1.4.3. and 1.4.4., CAP will obtain the reviews described in paragraphs 1.9.4. and 1.9.5. and resolve any aspects disapproved prior to execution of the respective documents.

HA! That explains everything!!   NHQ is just following Reg!

Wow, mark the calender for NHQ

[Monty]

I can just hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth now!  Just think how many people would complain about the expense if we switched all our patches and insignia to subdued.  And it would have to be all of it.  In some cases, that would mean redesigning patches, because loosing the ability to show off their "bling" isn't going to sit well with members either. 

Then there's always the question, "who's going to pay?"  Guess what.  The cost to redesign everything will be passed on to the member.  Why do we insist on making the price of membership so expensive?  Just to look military?

Bro, you know that TPTB read these forums?  Some ideas are best not shared....for fear that such things might happen......   

[SarDragon]

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

I really don't care so much if the branch tape has US on it or not, it's the cost & hassle comppunded with not explaining why I have to tax my people once again.

I was actually referring to the option of referring to wings by their numbers, rather than states.  Not the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" name tapes.

[my emphasis] I think that is an absolutely HORRID idea. It may work for you to have the wings all numbered, but it doesn't work for other folks. Here in CAWG, most of the units are referred to by numbers, and I, and others, have a terrible time figuring out which unit is where. In the other wings I was in, thenunits were referred to by their names, and many of the names were based on location, specifically the county they were based in.

Which is easier, Sq 57, or San Diego Sr Sq? I vote for the latter, since it tells me exactly where the squadron is located.

[DNall]

No one said Sqs should necissarily go by numbers, and I don't frankly care what is easier to remember, that's a seperate discussion. The point made was WINGS should go by numbers rather than state names, and the purpose was to destroy all thought of being 52 state based organizations loosely confederated together, but to be one really strong national organization with linear lines of authority which has 52 branch offices which just happen to share the same geographic lines as states but nothing should be read into where those lines happen to be. If you're going for the one CAP thing, that's a lot mroe effective than putting US on the front of our branch tapes.

[lordmonar]

I like the idea, but wouldn't that get somewhat confusing after a while?  (If you've got multiple units working together.)

I really don't care so much if the branch tape has US on it or not, it's the cost & hassle comppunded with not explaining why I have to tax my people once again.

I was actually referring to the option of referring to wings by their numbers, rather than states.  Not the "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL" name tapes.

[my emphasis] I think that is an absolutely HORRID idea. It may work for you to have the wings all numbered, but it doesn't work for other folks. Here in CAWG, most of the units are referred to by numbers, and I, and others, have a terrible time figuring out which unit is where. In the other wings I was in, thenunits were referred to by their names, and many of the names were based on location, specifically the county they were based in.

Which is easier, Sq 57, or San Diego Sr Sq? I vote for the latter, since it tells me exactly where the squadron is located.

I would go for changing the squadron names to their locations.  It is easy to know where the San Diego Sr Squadron but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squdron.

With the squadron able to name themselve after just about anything they want to....numbers are just as acceptable.

[DNall]

I'd agree to location names for Sqs - worse than people's names are other stuff (hold on this may make a couple people mad)... pegasus, thunderbird, flying tiger, Delta, Sabre... and then ones named for Army units they are based with (75th Div, 7-6 Air Cav composite Sq, that's crazy looking.

Nice clean location names (city or county) would be nice, but formally you should still be the 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg. I think we even had this conversation way back & the idea then was: "360th Comp Sq (Sugar Land), 42nd CAP Wg"  if you are inside the state, or 360th CS, 42 CAP Wg (Texas) for outside the wing. Makes since right?

[DrJbdm]

I'd agree to location names for Sqs - worse than people's names are other stuff (hold on this may make a couple people mad)... pegasus, thunderbird, flying tiger, Delta, Sabre... and then ones named for Army units they are based with (75th Div, 7-6 Air Cav composite Sq, that's crazy looking.

Nice clean location names (city or county) would be nice, but formally you should still be the 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg. I think we even had this conversation way back & the idea then was: "360th Comp Sq (Sugar Land), 42nd CAP Wg"  if you are inside the state, or 360th CS, 42 CAP Wg (Texas) for outside the wing. Makes since right?

   I agree, I just don't understand how people do not see how unprofessional those other names we all use are. 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg sounds much more professional and much more Military. And face it, As long as we are known as the U.S. Air Force Aux we will be associated with the Military. CAP NEEDS every little bit it can to look more professional. That's how you attract clients/customers (including AF), it's not only about cost, it's about getting the job done the best! And Image is supremely important!

[Hawk200]

   I agree, I just don't understand how people do not see how unprofessional those other names we all use are. 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg sounds much more professional and much more Military. And face it, As long as we are known as the U.S. Air Force Aux we will be associated with the Military. CAP NEEDS every little bit it can to look more professional. That's how you attract clients/customers (including AF), it's not only about cost, it's about getting the job done the best! And Image is supremely important!

It does indeed sound more military to me. When someone military asks me about my CAP affiliations, telling them as a numbered squadron and wing puts it into a perspective they can understand. They may still ask where it is, but it sounds better than "Timbuktoo Composite Squadron".

I think it may be a good thing to start going by numbered methods. We want military customers (and in some cases we have them), and it would probably provide a boost for us. Instead of squadron names, we could start mirroring the Air Force and using squadron mottos on our patches. I'm not looking to clone the Air Force, but aligning our organization concepts with theirs would never hurt.

[Joe Baker]

NOO...........don't make me change anything else on my uniform.  I just spend 2hrs updating all my BDU's to comply with the recent policy changes.  Why don't we give ourselves a break? Eh?

[Hawk200]

NOO...........don't make me change anything else on my uniform.  I just spend 2hrs updating all my BDU's to comply with the recent policy changes.  Why don't we give ourselves a break? Eh?

The smart thing to do on any of those changes is to enact a phase in period. For the moment, the easiest thing to do would be to just remove the patches, and worry about new ones later.

[lordmonar]

NOO...........don't make me change anything else on my uniform.  I just spend 2hrs updating all my BDU's to comply with the recent policy changes.  Why don't we give ourselves a break? Eh?

What recent policy change are you talking about?

The only things that have changed (not counting the u.s. on the name tapes) all happened over a year ago!

[DNall]

^ Right, and does "US Civil Air Patrol" requires AF approval? I wouldn't rush out & do anything, especially if it involves money.

[RiverAux]

dnall, thanks for answering the regulation question --- been out of town.

[sardak]

...but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squadron.

Springfield

I just don't understand how people do not see how unprofessional those other names we all use are. 360th Comp Sq, 42nd CAP Wg sounds much more professional and much more Military. 

Much more military yes.  Much more professional?  Only to those who think CAP should do everything like the military.  To the majority of the civilian public names don't sound any less professional than numbers.
Mike

[lordmonar]

...but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squadron.

Springfield

Yes...but what Wing?

[Chappie]

...but where the heck is the Homer J. Simpson Air Power Supreme Super Composite Squadron.

Springfield

Yes...but what Wing?

I would venture to say it is in the DOHWG 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I wonder if NHQ would buy into a squadron named the Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron, if there were a letter signed by "Marge Simpson" in the charter application packet giving permission to use the name?

[ZigZag911]

I wonder if NHQ would buy into a squadron named the Homer J. Simpson Memorial Cadet Squadron, if there were a letter signed by "Marge Simpson" in the charter application packet giving permission to use the name?

Don't know, but if they do, count me in!