Hypothetical Situation

[NIN]

I had a CAP officer come to me recently, asking my opinion on something.

"You were a unit commander. How would you handle this?"

Longtime CAP member, he moved from Wing A to Wing Z (not adjacent or in the same region, actually across the country). 

Shows up at the local unit sporting several new ribbons and badges that he did not have in the old wing.  Along the way, picked up some military service that folks in the old wing can't seem to recall having happened.  He has great stories about what he did when he was on active duty.  These stories are somewhat fanciful and difficult to confirm.

Of course, in this day & age, the Internet being what it is and all even 2000-3000 miles apart, people talk. Folks in Wing A are like "Oh, Colonel X is there? Have fun with that!"

This member is not some newb, but a long-time CAP member who appears to have "gone in the Air Force" at some point, at least, according to his narrative.

And already wearing Air Force ribbons & badges, and to his new unit, it looks like he has been for some time.  And he's been there now more like 2 years, and the tales get slightly more fanciful as time goes on.

Not like you can easily ask for the DD-214 in this circumstance.  "I gave my copy to my old unit in Wing A"

So how do _you_ handle it?

[SarDragon]

Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.

If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.

[Eclipse]

Yep.

Substantiate anything he's wearing or take it off.  Basic due dilegence.  The comments from the other wing, coupled with typical lame excuse for not producing proof are red flags enough.

The proof should be in his file, which should have come from the other wing.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.

If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.

Yes.  Leaving a 214 with a former CAP unit is, at best, irresponsible (ever hear of ID theft?), and, at worst...well, what he said.  I have my military/CAP papers in a locked, fireproof cabinet.

I find the person in question's behaviour as described rather suspect to say the least.  Usually when fanciful stories of military service are involved, the Bravo Sierra factor is exponentially greater.

If I were the unit CC I would tell the member in question, "until I see documentation for it, you don't wear it."

[NIN]

Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.

If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.

I didn't think of it in the "this is my only copy".. more like "I already showed my old unit the proof that I can wear these awards and badges that I'm wearing."

[SarDragon]

Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.

If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.

I didn't think of it in the "this is my only copy".. more like "I already showed my old unit the proof that I can wear these awards and badges that I'm wearing."

Then contacting the olde unit should be no problem.

[AngelWings]

What does he claim to be? Generally if he claims to be finance or some boring job, he is probably telling the truth. If he claims to be SF, PJ, CCT, or something of the like with great war stories, then it is a huge chance that he is lying.

Playing on a common phrase on the interent: "DD-214 or it didn't happen!" (as previously stated)

Could you please share some of the stories? I am seriously interested in what fanciful stories this guy came up with.

[NIN]

What does he claim to be? Generally if he claims to be finance or some boring job, he is probably telling the truth. If he claims to be SF, PJ, CCT, or something of the like with great war stories, then it is a huge chance that he is lying.

Playing on a common phrase on the interent: "DD-214 or it didn't happen!" (as previously stated)

Could you please share some of the stories? I am seriously interested in what fanciful stories this guy came up with.

Well, I'm leaving a lot to the imagination, but he claims to be a Command Pilot with a fairly prominent award (DFC, Air Medal, Bronze Star, Silver Star, etc, that kind of prominent), a few other minor awards, stories of derring do "back in the day," etc.  But none of what he's saying seems to add up.

I helped my friend submit a request to the NPRC based on the information he had (name, approximate DOB, service, approximate timeframes, but not SSN and not with FOUO data that CAP might have, cuz that might be unethical) and the NPRC basically came back and said "no record found based on that information."  Now, that could mean a) not ever been in the AF, thus no record; or b) you need better identifying info before we'll just give up that record.

[Garibaldi]

Like the kids say nowadays...pics or it didn't happen. In this case, I'd listen carefully to his stories and have him repeat them at intervals to and around different people and see if the basic facts change. Take notes.

Or, just bull through it and demand to see a 214. It should be in his file if he has one, at least a copy of it. Mine is, from what little service (1 month) I had.

On the other hand, maybe he has a self esteem issue and needs to puff himself up, and he just doesn't get that some people will see through the BS and actually check. A DFC and an Air Medal are fairly prestigious awards. Start asking questions about what units he was with on AD, where he was stationed, etc. unless that's already been done.

I, too, am interested in what sort of BS this guy may be slinging. Might could be that the FBI could do a little "background"...

[AngelWings]

He owes me a new BS meter. His story just broke mine.

The NPRC would have been completely up front with you and told you "No." if they wanted to. They're upfront people. BTDT.

Tell him to show his DD-214 or he has to remove the awards and be honest. It's easier to forgive a liar after they try to repent. If he were in my squadron, I'd be hardpressed to find a reason to even keep him kicking around. Not even for the fact he lied, but for his own safety.

[Devil Doc]

No DD-214, or Showed Old Unit is Bravo Sierra. Ive have never seen an VET refuse to show his DD-214, unless he "Legitimately" didnt have one. Vets are proud to show of there accomplishments, and dont forget who they served with or what unit they were in.  So No 214, no GO

[Al Sayre]

If he ever used his DD214 for any PME or advanced grade, it'll show up on his Member Search Report as a minimum with the branch of service and the PME credit because a copy of the DD214 went to NHQ in order to get the credit.  Generally if he's wearing USAF Command Pilot wings, he likely made at least O-4, and got credit for the military grade when he joined.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.

[AirDX]

"Hey, sir, we don't have any records from your old unit, we need to build a personnel file for you.  Copies of any CAP records you have, and of course a copy of your DD-214.  Thanks!"  Then if he doesn't comply, proceed from there.

[Devil Doc]

You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.

I smell an 2B

[NIN]

You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.

Considering all the fake DD-214s I've seen, well.. counterfeiting measures, pfft.

[NIN]

He owes me a new BS meter. His story just broke mine.

LOL. Nice

The NPRC would have been completely up front with you and told you "No." if they wanted to. They're upfront people. BTDT.

See, thats the thing: you submit a request to the NPRC that says "I'm looking for Joe Smith, date of birth some time in 1962, was in the Army somewhere between 1982 and 1986" you're gonna get back a letter that says "hey, yeah, can you be -more-specific-?" meaning "we matched 24 Joe Smiths meeting that criteria"....

So when they come back an say "need more input," you're kind of stuck.

[AngelWings]

Depending on the prestigious award he has, it may help you with finding if he is real or not.

http://www.homeofheroes.com/verify/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#American_Civil_War

http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/02_AFC/detail_index_chron.html

There are many sites, and usually a quick google search will find a reference to someone who has won a medal at the top of the honor pyramid.

[LGM30GMCC]

You could get real specific in asking his stories and getting more detail.

What airframe did he fly? What year was he flying it? Which flight training squadron did he graduate? Which unit was he assigned to? I suppose you could forget this stuff but as a 'command pilot' as has been pointed out, that's a long time in the USAF. Compare some of the stuff he says to historical records. While he could do this, I'm doubting a true 'faker' really would.

Now it is possible you're dealing with someone massaging their service because they feel no one would applaud their service otherwise.

Of course, I know I am also getting a bit more cynical these days. I am less impressed by a lot of the old time 'back in my day' type stories.

[a2capt]

I seem to recall someone on here posting lots of "adventurous" BITD stories and then decided to come clean before getting banned. Or simply disappearing.

Fakery tends to show itself eventually.